Understand Noether's Theorem w/ Lagrangian Example

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Noether's Theorem in the context of a specific Lagrangian involving complex variables. Participants explore the mathematical implications of the Lagrangian, the meaning of superscripts in the equations, and the relationship between transformations and conserved quantities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mathematical validity of the expression for the conserved charge Q, specifically why it includes the term with the complex conjugate of \dot{z}.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the meaning of the superscript 'i', suggesting it corresponds to axes in a complex plane, but expresses confusion about its relevance in this context.
  • Some participants discuss the orthogonality of the x, y, and z axes, raising concerns about defining z as a combination of x and y.
  • A later reply suggests that a transformation of the Lagrangian is necessary before defining a Noether current and conserved charge, indicating a potential gap in understanding the process.
  • One participant speculates that x and y might be treated as four vectors, which introduces further uncertainty regarding the dimensionality of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the mathematical framework and implications of the Lagrangian and Noether's Theorem. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the superscripts or the necessity of transformations in this context, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unclear definitions of the superscripts and their relevance, as well as unresolved questions about the dimensionality of the variables involved. The discussion reflects a mixture of mathematical reasoning and conceptual exploration without definitive conclusions.

vertices
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Hi

I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to help me understand an example in my class notes:

If we have a Lagrangian:

[tex]L=m(\dot{z}\dot{z^{*}})-V(\dot{z}\dot{z^{*}})[/tex]

where z=x+iy.

Why does it follow that

[tex]Q=X^{i}\frac{{\partial}L}{{\partial}\dot{q}^{i}}[/tex]

is equal to:

[tex]X\frac{{\partial}L}{{\partial}\dot{z}}+X^{*}\frac{{\partial}L}{{\partial}\dot{z^{*}}}[/tex]?

I mean, mathematically that seems wrong, why are we adding the second term (the one with the complex conjugate of [tex]\dot{z}[/tex])

Also, can I check if my understanding of the superscript 'i' is correct - does it correspond to the axes, for example i=1 corresponds to the x axis, i=2 corresponds to the y axis, etc. If z = x + iy, we are no longer talking about a 3 dimensional real space, so how are the superscripts relavent?

And is there a reason why the superscript 'i' has gone in the second line?

thanks
 
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vertices said:
Also, can I check if my understanding of the superscript 'i' is correct - does it correspond to the axes, for example i=1 corresponds to the x axis, i=2 corresponds to the y axis, etc. If z = x + iy, we are no longer talking about a 3 dimensional real space, so how are the superscripts relavent?
The superscripts are confusing to me. e^(0 i pi/2) is 1 which is the x-axis in the complex plane, e^(1 i pi/2) is i which is the y-axis in the complex plane, e^(2 i pi/2) is -1 which is the -x axis in the complex plane, and e^(3 i pi/2) is -i which is the -y axis in the complex plane. Are the superscripts related to that somehow?
 
DaleSpam said:
The superscripts are confusing to me. e^(0 i pi/2) is 1 which is the x-axis in the complex plane, e^(1 i pi/2) is i which is the y-axis in the complex plane, e^(2 i pi/2) is -1 which is the -x axis in the complex plane, and e^(3 i pi/2) is -i which is the -y axis in the complex plane. Are the superscripts related to that somehow?

I am not sure about this, as the x,y, and z axes should be orthogonal to each other, in other words they are linearly independent - ie. you can't define z in the way that it has been defined (z=x+iy), as a linear combination of x and y...
 
Call me crazy, but don't you need to first have a transformation of the Lagrangian before you can define a Noether current and a conserved charge?

BTW, in my QFT class I never had to deal with a complex-valued coordinate. But I'm guessing that x and y in this context are both four vectors (and therefore z as well). I could be wrong...
 

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