Understanding Damped Harmonic Motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of damped harmonic motion, specifically focusing on the derivation of the general solution for a mass-spring system in a viscous medium. Participants explore the implications of damping on the motion and the corresponding equations of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the equation of motion for a mass on a spring in a viscous liquid and seeks clarification on the derivation of the general solution.
  • Another participant suggests that the phase term \(\phi\) accounts for the sine component in the general solution, which is a rewriting of the solution that includes both cosine and sine functions.
  • A later reply explains the roots of the characteristic equation and how they relate to the solution in the complex plane, emphasizing the importance of taking the real part to obtain the physical response.
  • One participant questions the definitions used for damping coefficients and suggests alternative definitions that may simplify the mathematics involved.
  • Another participant agrees with the alternative definitions and notes that they align with their professor's approach, while also mentioning potential discrepancies in different systems used for dynamics analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions of damping coefficients and their implications for the equations of motion. There is no consensus on the best approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal definitions and their effects on the analysis.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the choice of definitions for damping coefficients can lead to different mathematical complexities, and there is mention of potential variations in how these definitions are applied in different contexts.

elemis
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So my professor was discussing the case of a mass suspended from a vertical massless spring in some viscous liquid.

He arrives at the equation of motion which was :x: + \frac{b}{m}x. + \frac{k}{m}x = 0

x: is the second derivative of displacement wrt time. similarly x. is the first derivative.

He then defined b/m = gamma k/m= w^2

He then used the trial solution x=Ae^{t\tau} formed an auxillary equation and solved it to get :

\frac{-\gamma}{2}±\sqrt{\frac{\gamma^2}{4}-w^2}

He then examined the discriminant of the above equation to formulate the general solution for light damping.

I understand in light damping w^2 < (gamma^2)/4

But how does he arrive at the following general solution :

Ae^\frac{t\gamma}{2}cos(wt + \phi)

Where did the e^t*gamma/2 come from ? Why is there no sine function even though we have an imaginary root case ? Why is there a phi in there ?
 
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I don't understand what you mean. Can you be more specific ?
 
The \phi has essentially absorbed the Sine term. It is just another way to rewrite the more general solution (Which involves both Cosine + Sine functions). The exponential comes from the solution to the differential equations. If you understand the differential equation, everything will make complete sense.

I hope I am shedding some light on the matter and not digging you a deeper hole. . .

This is thoroughly explained in any 2nd year classical mechanics or quantum mechanics text.
 
Hi elemis. You have to be a little careful with the notation there. So for the lightly damped case, the two roots we get are given by r_1 = -\frac{\gamma}{2} + i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}, r_2 = -\frac{\gamma}{2} - i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}} where ##\omega_{n}## is the natural frequency. So the solution in the complex plane is going to be r(t) = c_1e^{-\frac{\gamma}{2} + i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}t} + c_2e^{-\frac{\gamma}{2} - i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}t} = e^{-\gamma/2}(c_1e^{i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}t} + c_2e^{- i\sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}t}) We then define the damped frequency ##\omega_{d}:= \sqrt{\omega_{n}^{2} - \frac{\gamma^{2}}{4}}##. Then, ##r(t) = e^{(-\gamma/2)t}(c_1e^{i\omega_{d}t} + c_2e^{- i\omega_{d}t})## so if we take the real part of this we get our response ##x(t) = e^{(-\gamma/2)t}(c_1\cos\omega_{d}t + c_2\sin\omega_{d}t)##. We can rewrite this as ##x(t) = Ae^{(-\gamma/2)t}\cos(\omega_{d}t - \phi)##, after defining ##A = \sqrt{c_{1}^2 + c_{2}^2}, \phi = \arctan(c_{2}/c_{1})## and using the cosine addition formulas.
 
Last edited:
elemis said:
He then defined b/m = gamma k/m= w^2

Are you sure about that? You can do the math that way, but the end result is messy (as in WannabeNewton's post).

Things work out a lot nicer if you define ##k/m = \omega^2## and then ##b/m = \gamma \omega##. ##\gamma## is then dimensionless (just a number).

(In fact if you define ##b/m = 2 \beta \omega## the math works out even nicer still).
 
AlephZero said:
(In fact if you define ##b/m = 2 \beta \omega## the math works out even nicer still).
This was the way my professor defined it in fact. I do agree it works out nicer and it's less work for me since I don't have to change the terms in my notes when posting here :-p
 
AlephZero said:
(In fact if you define ##b/m = 2 \beta \omega## the math works out even nicer still).

WannabeNewton said:
This was the way my professor defined it in fact.

The only problem is that some computer systems for dynamics analysis include the "2" and others don't.

But in real life, you often don't know the level of damping to within a factor of 2, so it might not make much difference either way :devil:
 

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