Understanding Invariance of Spacetime Intervals

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of invariance of spacetime intervals under coordinate transformations, specifically in the context of special relativity. Participants analyze the measurements of spacetime changes made by observers Bob and Charlie, who perceive Alice moving at different velocities (3/5c and 4/5c, respectively). It is concluded that the spacetime intervals measured by Bob and Charlie are not equivalent due to their differing frames of reference, leading to the realization that invariance does not apply when comparing measurements from different observers. The importance of hyperplanes of simultaneity in understanding these discrepancies is emphasized.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of special relativity principles
  • Familiarity with spacetime intervals and their calculations
  • Knowledge of coordinate transformations in physics
  • Concept of hyperplanes of simultaneity
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Lorentz transformation equations in detail
  • Learn about the implications of time dilation and length contraction
  • Explore examples of spacetime interval calculations in different inertial frames
  • Investigate the concept of simultaneity in special relativity
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Students of physics, educators teaching special relativity, and anyone interested in the foundational concepts of spacetime and its invariance.

nomadreid
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Category of simple questions

Obviously I am misunderstanding how an interval of space- time can be invariant under coordinate transformations. The following elementary (but obviously incorrect) calculation will illustrate my difficulty.

Alice is leaving her two boyfriends, Bob and Charlie. Bob sees Alice going at a constant velocity of 3/5 the speed of light away from him, so after a second, Bob measures Alice’s space-time change as (using the (+,-,-,-) convention) (9.0 x 1016 m2- 5.4 x 1016 m2 = 3.6 x 1016 m.

Charlie also sees Alice going away from him at a constant velocity, but at 4/5 the speed of light, so after a second, Charlie measures Alice’s space-time change as

9 x 1016 m2- 7.2 x 1016 m2 = 1.8 x 1016 m.

I would be grateful for corrections.
 
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A second in Charlie's time is not the same as a second in Bob's time, and their hyperplanes of simultaneity are different.
Assuming Alice, Bob and Charlie are next to one another at t=0, with Alice heading west at 0.6c and Charlie heading East at 0.2c (approx.) the spacetime location that Bob identifies as Alice's position after one (Bob) second is not the same as the spacetime location that Charlie identifies as Alice's position after one (Charlie) second.

So the spacetime intervals being measured are not between the same two spacetime points. So invariance is not applicable.
 
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Ah, I hadn't taken that into account. Thanks, andrewkirk. Back to the drawing board.
 

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