Understanding Jacobian in relation to physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Jacobians in physics, particularly in the context of a game physics engine that resolves contact forces. Participants explore the mathematical foundations of Jacobians, their role in handling constraints, and seek intuitive understanding of their application in physics scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding Jacobians and requests simple examples related to their use in contact resolution within a physics engine.
  • Another participant suggests that solving a constraint matrix involves linear approximation, which relates to the Jacobian.
  • A participant provides a link to a resource that may help clarify the concept of Jacobians.
  • Discussion includes an explanation of how the Jacobian handles multiple variables and directions, emphasizing its role in resolving slopes through partial differential coefficients.
  • One participant reflects on the constraints of a holonomic function and questions the relationship between the distance L and the vector difference between two positions, ri and rj.
  • A later reply clarifies that in higher dimensions, the distance is derived from the vector difference and relates to the Pythagorean theorem, indicating a more complex understanding of the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and intuition regarding Jacobians and their applications. There is no consensus on the necessity of prior linear algebra knowledge for understanding Jacobians, nor is there agreement on the interpretation of constraints in the context of holonomic functions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the complexity of the mathematical concepts involved and the potential need for foundational knowledge in linear algebra to fully grasp the applications of Jacobians in physics.

cboyce
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I'm working with a game physics engine that uses Jacobians to resolve contact forces. It's been a few years since my physics and linear algebra classes (where we didn't get to Jacobian matrices), so what I'm reading about Jacobians is fairly overwhelming. Most of what I can find are fairly formal definitions, without any examples about what I'm specifically looking for. Can someone give me a couple simple examples about how Jacobians would apply in physics contact resolution, or point me to a resource that does? Or are they complex enough that I need to relearn all the linear algebra leading up to them to understand how to use them?
 
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Thanks for the link, I think that gives me a good idea where I need to start to understand them.
 
Don't know if this helps but if you have a simple function of a single variable
such as y = f(x) you can differentiate this to get the slope.
As there is only one direction involved, there is only one slope to chose from.
Variously we write f'(x) or dy/dx etc.

When you are dealing with a function of several variables, as you must be, there are many directions to chose from, all with different slopes available.

The Jacobian is a method of handling this, which is why the matrix contains an array of partial differential coeffiecients. If you like it is a method of resolving the slopes into as many suitable directions as are needed.
Yes linear algebra theory confirms that this is the same number as the number of independent variables.
 
I've been doing quite a bit of reading, and I've been trying to get an intuitive sense of the constraints in play. Per the example of a holonomic function at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic#Examples", I can intuitively understand that x^2+x^3 - L = 0 constrains a point to someplace on a circle. But then it says given
attachment.php?attachmentid=30060&stc=1&d=1290556566.png
, L is the distance between the two positions ri and rj, but wouldn't ri -rj already give you the distance between the two positions?
 

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cboyce said:
But then it says given
attachment.php?attachmentid=30060&stc=1&d=1290556566.png
, L is the distance between the two positions ri and rj, but wouldn't ri -rj already give you the distance between the two positions?

In one dimension, yes. But note the boldface: [tex]\vec{r_i}[/tex] and [tex]\vec{r_j}[/tex] are vectors here, so [tex]\vec{r} = \vec{r_i} - \vec{r_j}[/tex] is the vector specifying the difference between the two, squaring it here is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_product" of the resulting vector and itself, i.e. the x-component squared plus the y component squared and so on. So this works for any number of dimensions, by the pythagorean theorem [tex]\sqrt{x^2 + y^2}[/tex] is the distance in 2d, [tex]\sqrt{x^2 + y^2 + z^2}[/tex] in 3d and so on.
 
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