Understanding Newtonian Gravitation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of gravitational forces acting on a point mass located within different mass configurations, specifically an enclosed shell and a ring of mass with uniform density. Participants explore the implications of Newtonian gravitation in these scenarios, questioning how to determine the net gravitational force in each case.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that for a point mass inside an enclosed shell, the net gravitational force is zero, drawing a parallel to the behavior of electricity in a Faraday cage.
  • Another participant suggests that if the outer shell provides a net force of zero, it can be ignored, and only the inner shell should be considered for calculating the gravitational force.
  • A different participant reiterates that the net gravitational force exerted by a ring on a point mass inside it is always zero, arguing that the forces from symmetrically opposite masses on the ring cancel each other out.
  • Another participant questions whether the discussion refers to a spherical shell or an annulus, noting that the shell theorem applies specifically to spherical shells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the shell theorem and the nature of the gravitational forces in the scenarios presented. There is no consensus on how to approach the problem of the net gravitational force in the case of the ring.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not clarify the assumptions regarding the definitions of the mass configurations, nor do they resolve the mathematical implications of their claims. The discussion remains focused on conceptual understanding without definitive conclusions.

Quantumsatire
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So for a point mass in an enclosed shell, the net force of gravity is zero (similar to electricity in a Faraday cage I presume). However, what happens when that point mass is placed in side the ring of mass m and uniform density. Say the outer shell has radius r and inner shell has radius x, so the region r-x is a massed shell/ring. How would you find the net force of gravity?
 
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If the outer shell alone gives you a net force of zero, then it can be ignored.

You only consider the inner shell and calculate your force in the normal way.
 
Quantumsatire said:
So for a point mass in an enclosed shell, the net force of gravity is zero (similar to electricity in a Faraday cage I presume). However, what happens when that point mass is placed in side the ring of mass m and uniform density. Say the outer shell has radius r and inner shell has radius x, so the region r-x is a massed shell/ring. How would you find the net force of gravity?

Net gravitational force on point mass by ring will be always zero. Consider the entire mass of ring as small point equal masses. For every point mass on ring, there will be another point mass symmetrically opposite on the ring. Net force by two opposite masses on the point mass inside cancel out. Thus, net gravitational force is zero
 
Quantumsatire said:
So for a point mass in an enclosed shell, the net force of gravity is zero (similar to electricity in a Faraday cage I presume). However, what happens when that point mass is placed in side the ring of mass m and uniform density. Say the outer shell has radius r and inner shell has radius x, so the region r-x is a massed shell/ring. How would you find the net force of gravity?

Do you mean spherical shell or an annulus? They are not the same and the shell theorem only applies to a spherical shell.
 

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