Understanding SU(3) & Quarks: Proton Structure & Multiplets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure of protons in terms of quarks and their representation under the SU(3) group, focusing on the fundamental representation of quarks, the specific quark combination that defines a proton, and the concept of multiplets. It includes theoretical aspects and conceptual clarifications regarding quark combinations and their implications for particle identity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the fundamental representation of quarks in SU(3) and why a proton is specifically composed of uud quarks.
  • One participant argues that while the valence quarks of a proton are uud, there are additional Fock states and vacuum fluctuations that contribute to its properties.
  • Another participant questions why other combinations, such as uuudd, are not valid representations for protons, suggesting that the baryon number and charge are determined by the quark combination.
  • It is noted that uuudd does not satisfy color neutrality, which is a requirement for stable baryons.
  • Participants discuss the implications of having a d-bar quark in certain combinations, leading to the concept of pentaquarks.
  • There is a question raised about which SU(3) representation is being referred to, whether it is SU(3)_c (color) or SU(3)_f (flavor), indicating a potential distinction in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of quark combinations and their implications for particle identity. There is no consensus on the specific reasons for the proton's quark structure or the implications of different SU(3) representations.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions touch on the historical development of quark theory and the necessity of quark combinations to satisfy quantum numbers, but these points remain unresolved and depend on further clarification of definitions and assumptions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying particle physics, particularly in understanding the role of quarks in baryon structure and the implications of SU(3) symmetry in particle classification.

faen
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Can anyone please explain to me how quarks are the fundamental representation of SU(3)?

Why is a proton exactly uud and not another combination of quarks?

What is a multiplet?

Thank you for answers :)
 
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Hi,

I'll pick the short one :smile:
faen said:
Why is a proton exactly uud and not another combination of quarks?
This is not true : the valence part of the proton, which determines its quantum numbers (so its unique identity) is exactly uud, but there is more to the proton. There is an infinite tower of additional Fock state, or if you will as much vacuum fluctuations as you can wish for if you look "close enough" (at short distances).
 
but why is it not let's say just u or uuudd? Those combinations also correspond to the protons isospin so why just uud? the baryon number and charge seems to be defined after knowing that it is the combination of 3 quarks which determine the proton state.
 
faen said:
but why is it not let's say just u or uuudd? Those combinations also correspond to the protons isospin so why just uud? the baryon number and charge seems to be defined after knowing that it is the combination of 3 quarks which determine the proton state.
We always proceed by trials and errors. You can not expect that we knew historically about quarks before we knew about protons. Given quarks, the minimal combination considering all quantum numbers is uud. That is what we call valence part of the wavefunction.
 
uuudd does not satisfy colour neutrality.
 
malawi_glenn said:
uuudd does not satisfy colour neutrality.

true. if one of the d's is a dbar, then it's a pentaquark, those mythical particles that we thought we found a few years back.
 
blechman said:
true. if one of the d's is a dbar, then it's a pentaquark, those mythical particles that we thought we found a few years back.

also one u must be u-bar in order to maintain colour neutrality.
 
malawi_glenn said:
also one u must be u-bar in order to maintain colour neutrality.

no - you can have the color combination r+g+b+c+cbar (where c is any color). that's the pentaquark.
 
ah yeah of course, stupid me.. and I supposed to be a Hadron Physicsits:P
 
  • #10
faen said:
Can anyone please explain to me how quarks are the fundamental representation of SU(3)?

Why is a proton exactly uud and not another combination of quarks?

What is a multiplet?

Thank you for answers :)

Which SU(3) are you referring to? SU(3)_c (color) or SU(3)_f (flavor)? It makes a difference...
 

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