Underwater projectile affected by Coriolis Effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of the Coriolis Effect on underwater projectiles, specifically torpedoes. Participants explore whether the Coriolis Effect is significant enough to influence the trajectory of torpedoes, particularly in the context of simulation and targeting systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relevance of the Coriolis Effect when firing a torpedo underwater, given the torpedo's speed and range.
  • Another participant asserts that while the Coriolis Effect is stronger for underwater objects than for those in a vacuum, it is still negligible compared to other factors affecting torpedo trajectory, such as water currents and waves.
  • A participant inquires about the necessity of considering the Coriolis Effect in a simulation that only accounts for latitude and not other underwater disturbances, suggesting that plotting an intercept course might suffice.
  • There is a query regarding the historical accuracy of stabilization technologies in torpedoes built in the 1970s.
  • One participant explains that the Coriolis force affects the torpedo similarly to a projectile in a vacuum, but the surrounding water flows in the opposite direction, creating additional forces that may influence the torpedo's path.
  • Another participant emphasizes that neglecting currents or disturbances in the model renders it unrealistic, while also confirming that torpedoes from the 1970s were indeed stabilized and guided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the Coriolis Effect in underwater projectile motion. While some acknowledge its presence, they argue it is overshadowed by other forces, leading to an unresolved discussion regarding its practical implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various factors that could affect the torpedo's trajectory, including water currents and gyroscopic stabilization, but do not reach a consensus on the extent to which the Coriolis Effect should be considered in simulations.

minghia
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If I am trying to fire a torpedo at another vehicle underwater do I need to worry about the Coriolis Effect? The speeds that torpedoes travel at are approximately 20 m/s and have a maximum range of around 10km.
 
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Coriolis effect is even stronger for underwater object than for the one moving in vacuum. But it still is negligible when compared to other forces disturbing the torpedo trajectory (water currents, waves, imperfect geometry, etc.) so since WWI (when torpedos reached range bigger than 1000 meters) all torpedoes are equipped with gyroscopic stabilisation of their course and/or some kind of guidance.
 
I am trying to simulate a firing system for torpedoes and the only positional information I get about the launch vehicle is its latitude. I am curious as to why this is the case. I guessed the targetting solution may be affected by the Coriolis effect. If I wasn't modelling currents or any other underwater disturbance would I need to worry about it?

So if I only plot an intercept course for the target that should be sufficient?

Also is what you are saying about stabilsation true for a torpedo built in the 1970s?
 
xts said:
Coriolis effect is even stronger for underwater object than for the one moving in vacuum.
Why?
 
@A.T.
torpedo itself is affected by Coriolis force in the same manner as a projectile moving in vacuum. Let's say (we are on Northern hemisphere) to the right. But the water surrounding it flows around in opposite direction. The water is affected by Coriolis force to its right, which causes hydrostatic pressure gradient, giving higher pressure on the left side of torpedo, giving thus additional force pushing it to the right. Actually - I am not able to calculate it precisely nor even to estimate the magnitude of this additional force, but sureley it adds up additional force in the same direction as Coriolis force.

@Minghia: "If I wasn't modelling currents or any other underwater disturbance would I need to worry about it?"
Of course, not. But that means your model is unrealistic.

"Also is what you are saying about stabilsation true for a torpedo built in the 1970s?"
All torpedoes built in 1970' were not only stabilized, but also guided by some system, like sonar, passive sonar, or remote guidance. Guided torpedoes were introduced during WW-II, while gyroscopic stabilisation was added to torpedoe mechanisms as early as at beginning of WW-I.
See wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedoe
 
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