Unexplained Object Movements: What Causes Random Movements Without Force?"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of objects moving or falling seemingly without any apparent external force acting on them. Participants explore various explanations for these occurrences, touching on concepts from physics and the nature of stability in real-world systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that what appears to be a stable object is subject to tiny imperceptible changes that can lead to its eventual movement, such as temperature changes affecting friction.
  • Others suggest that real systems cannot maintain equilibrium due to the multitude of variables involved, which can lead to unexpected movements.
  • A participant mentions that in specific scenarios, such as dishes drying in a rack, the balance of forces can change over time, causing movement.
  • Another viewpoint discusses the ripening or drying of fruit, which may seem static until it suddenly falls, highlighting the slow processes that can lead to sudden changes.
  • Brownian motion is introduced as a potential cause for random movements, where microscopic molecular motion can influence larger objects, especially if they are near a tipping point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the causes of random movements, with no consensus reached. Multiple competing explanations are presented, reflecting differing interpretations of stability and motion in physical systems.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of stability and the influence of microscopic forces, which may not be fully explored or defined. The complexity of real systems and the variables involved remain unresolved.

albertrichardf
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Hello
This is a rather weird question but anyway...
Have you ever seen something just fall for no apparent reason? Its rather stable for some time and then suddenly it falls or moves? And you haven't touched anything. There is no wind. Nothing
What causes that?
It seems pretty strange, because there needs to be a force to make objects fall. I know there is gravity pulling it, but if it is balanced now, why would it not be balanced later?
Any idea what causes that?
Thanks
 
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What one perceives as a stable, motionless object often is not. So, there are tiny imperceptible changes that occur that eventually result in the topple. This can be as "hidden" as a temperature change causing a slight expansion of the object, thus overcoming a former point of friction.
 
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rumborak said:
What one perceives as a stable, motionless object often is not. So, there are tiny imperceptible changes that occur that eventually result in the topple. This can be as "hidden" as a temperature change causing a slight expansion of the object, thus overcoming a former point of friction.
I see. Thanks for the explanation
 
@rumborak 's answer is a good one.

Think of a tree falling in the forest, or a sudden landslide on a mountain.
 
Real systems can't always maintain equilibrium because of the enormous number of variables to account for
 
This happens sometimes in a dish rack if things are piled up. As the dishes dry over time, an item can move as the forces on it are no longer balanced in its initial position.
 
In the case of a tree fruit, it is ripening over time, or drying or something, but the process is slow, so you view it as static, until it suddenly falls. On a microscopic scale, nothing is stationary. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
At temperatures above absolute zero, you have molecules randomly moving around. These bump into larger objects and can cause the larger objects to move around a little bit. If the object is near a precipice, it could get knocked over by a small force.
 
Albertrichardf said:
Real systems can't always maintain equilibrium because of the enormous number of variables to account for

So how many variables can real systems account for? Just kidding.:wink:
 
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I was actually thinking of brownian motion as a cause for random movement. It's always interesting to see how the invisible will come to play into the visible when you least expect it.
 

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