Unstable equilibrium in case of dipoles

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    Dipoles Equilibrium
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of unstable equilibrium in dipoles within an electric field. Participants explore the conditions under which a dipole is considered to be in unstable equilibrium, particularly focusing on the angles of 0 degrees and 180 degrees with respect to the electric field. The conversation includes inquiries about the mechanics of how a dipole returns to its original position after a small displacement and the role of torque in these scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a dipole is in unstable equilibrium when it makes a zero angle with the electric field, questioning how it returns to this position after displacement.
  • Others argue that at 180 degrees, the dipole is also in equilibrium, suggesting that a free body diagram could clarify the situation.
  • One participant compares the dipole's behavior in an electric field to that of a pendulum in a gravitational field, hinting at energy states influencing stability.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on understanding the torque produced by electric forces and how it affects the dipole's position, with some participants expressing difficulty in grasping the force diagrams provided.
  • Several participants seek clarification on why a dipole tends to restore its position when displaced from 0 degrees but not from 180 degrees, indicating a need for a deeper understanding of the underlying mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the mechanics of unstable equilibrium in dipoles. There are competing views on the conditions for equilibrium and the role of torque, with ongoing questions about the nature of forces acting on the dipole.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the interpretation of force diagrams and the application of concepts from mechanical systems to the behavior of dipoles in electric fields. The discussion remains open-ended with various assumptions and conditions not fully resolved.

gracy
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I know in case of unstable equilibrium of dipoles when dipole makes zero angle with electric field intensity ,But how we decide that this is unstable equilibrium I know in case of unstable equilibrium dipole returns to it's place after the small displacement ,I want to know why or how?why/how does it return to it's original position after the small displacement ?
 
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gracy said:
in case of unstable equilibrium of dipoles when dipole makes zero angle with electric field vector
Shouldn't the dipole be in equilibrium when it makes zero angle with the E field?
 
gracy said:
in case of unstable equilibrium of dipoles when dipole makes zero angle with electric field intensity
I meant 180 degrees
 
When the angle is 180 degrees, the dipole will also be in equilibrium position. Free body diagram can explain all this.
 
main question is
gracy said:
,I want to know why or how?why/how does it return to it's original position after the small displacement ?
 
See these pictures, red is positive and blue is negative. After all, the system of a dipole in a uniform monodirection electric field is the same as a pendulum under gravitational field.
 

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gracy said:
I know in case of unstable equilibrium of dipoles when dipole makes zero angle with electric field intensity ,But how we decide that this is unstable equilibrium I know in case of unstable equilibrium dipole returns to it's place after the small displacement ,I want to know why or how?why/how does it return to it's original position after the small displacement ?
In the first case (stable), if you rotate it a little bit from equilibrium the torque of the electric forces will rotate the dipole back to the zero angle.
In the second case (unstable) the torque will rotate it away from equilibrium.
The torque is zero for both cases (zero and 180) but but is not zero if the angle is changed a little bit.
 
nasu said:
the torque will rotate it away from equilibrium.
nasu said:
torque of the electric forces will rotate the dipole back to the zero angle.
Why?That's my main concern!
 
Why what? Why there are electric forces or why they rotate this way?
If it's the second part. just look at the force diagrams in the two cases.
 
  • #10
nasu said:
just look at the force diagrams in the two cases.
I am not able to grasp the diagrams.
 
  • #11
I want to know why Dipole tend to restore it's original position when displaced a little from 0 degree (with Electric field)but the dipole does not do the same(does not restore it's position)when displaced a little from 180 degree (with Electric field)
Want to understand with the help of force diagram but I am not getting those in post #6 because I want to take dipole as a whole not positive and negative charges
 
  • #12
gracy said:
I want to know why Dipole tend to restore it's original position when displaced a little from 0 degree (with Electric field)but the dipole does not do the same(does not restore it's position)when displaced a little from 180 degree (with Electric field)
Actually I have given you a very straightforward hint: pendulum under gravitation. Are you familiar with such mechanical system? In term of energy, it's a matter of which energy state is more favorable for this system to be in. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/diptor.html
gracy said:
Want to understand with the help of force diagram but I am not getting those in post #6 because I want to take dipole as a whole not positive and negative charges
Easy. Just move those force arrow lines to the complete dipole picture.
 
  • #13
gracy said:
I am not able to grasp the diagrams.
I don't mean the diagrams posted here.
Just draw the forces on each charge, from the external field. The forces between the charges are not relevant. In order to have a stable dipole these forces are already balanced by some sort of repulsive forces.
Imagine a rigid stick with forces applied to the ends and see which way will rotate.
The forces are along the vertical direction, either up or down, depending of the sign of the charges.
 

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