UP.2.33 The jumping flea problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a flea that jumps to a height of 0.440m. Participants explore the initial speed of the flea as it leaves the ground and the total time it spends in the air. The conversation includes various approaches to solving the problem, including kinematic equations and conservation of energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the kinematic equation $$x=x_0+v_ot+\frac{1}{2} at^2$$ to find the initial speed and time in the air.
  • Another participant questions the choice of acceleration and its sign, prompting a discussion about the conditions at the maximum height of the jump.
  • Several participants propose using the equation $$v_f^2 = v_0^2 - 2g \Delta y$$ to derive the initial speed, leading to the expression $$v_0 = \sqrt{2g h_{max}}$$.
  • There is mention of calculating the time to reach the maximum height and doubling it to find the total time in the air, with the formula $$T=\dfrac{2v_0}{g}$$ being referenced.
  • One participant introduces a method based on conservation of energy, equating kinetic energy at the start with potential energy at the peak of the jump.
  • Multiple participants provide similar calculations for the initial speed and time, but there is no consensus on the final values or methods used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods to approach the problem, but there is no consensus on a single solution or method. Different interpretations of the equations and approaches lead to multiple viewpoints without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific equations from textbooks, while others rely on video explanations. There is uncertainty regarding the application of certain equations and the assumptions made about acceleration and initial conditions.

karush
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a. If a flea can jumps straight up to a height of 0.440m.
what is the initial speed as it leaves the ground.
b. For how much time is it in the air?

ok I am sure we use this equation

$$x=x_0+v_o^t+\frac{1}{2} at^2$$

I watched another YT on this but it got to much complication
better just to come here
 
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Apart from YouTube, do you also have a textbook? What does that say?
(I am asking because I am rarely able to understand something from a video that I did not understand previously already.)

I think you mean $v_0t$ in the equation for $x$?

In a drawing, let the vertical axis be the $x$ axis, with upward = positive. The initial $x$-position $x_0 = 0$.
What do you choose for the acceleration $a$? What is the sign of $a$?

Now note that at the maximal $x$-position the velocity equals zero.
How do you obtain an expression for the velocity from the expression you have given?
 
I got that from the YT vid

the text is University Physics
but equation the is also form 2-12 on their eq list

I not in a class just doing this on my own.
 
Last edited:
(a) $v_f^2 = v_0^2 -2g \Delta y$

At the top of its trajectory, the flea’s velocity is zero and $\Delta y = h_{max}$ ...

$v_0 = \sqrt{2g h_{max}}$

(b) calculate the time it takes for the flea to reach the top of its trajectory, $h_{max}$, and double it ...

$v_f = v_0 - gt \implies t = \dfrac{v_0}{g}$

total time, $T=\dfrac{2v_0}{g} = \dfrac{2\sqrt{2gh_{max}}}{g}$
 
skeeter said:
(a) $v_f^2 = v_0^2 -2g \Delta y$

At the top of its trajectory, the flea’s velocity is zero and $\Delta y = h_{max}$ ...

$v_0 = \sqrt{2g h_{max}}$

(b) calculate the time it takes for the flea to reach the top of its trajectory, $h_{max}$, and double it ...

$v_f = v_0 - gt \implies t = \dfrac{v_0}{g}$

total time, $T=\dfrac{2v_0}{g} = \dfrac{2\sqrt{2gh_{max}}}{g}$

ok the textbook answers to this is

a. 2.94 m/s
b. 0.599 s

I'll see if i can plug into get em
$\displaystyle 0.599s=\frac{2\sqrt{2gh_{max}}}{g} $
if $g=-9.8$ and $h_{max}=.44$
 
Last edited:
karush said:
a. If a flea can jumps straight up to a height of 0.440m.
what is the initial speed as it leaves the ground.
b. For how much time is it in the air?

ok I am sure we use this equation

$$x=x_0+v_ot+\frac{1}{2} at^2$$

I watched another YT on this but it got to much complication
better just to come here
Well, since the "up to a height of 0.44m" is the height above the starting height, you can take $x_0= 0$. Then $x= v_0t+ \frac{1/2}at^2= \frac{1}{2}a(t^2+ \frac{2v_0}{a}t)$ is a quadratic and we can "complete the square": $x= \frac{a}{2}\left(t^2+ \frac{2v_0}{a}t+ \frac{v_0^2}{a^2}- \frac{v_0^2}{a^2}\right)= \frac{a}{2}\left(x+ \frac{v_0}{a}\right)^2- \frac{v_0^2}{2a^2}$. "a" here is negative so that this is an "upside down" parabola. When $t= -\frac{v_0}{a}$ it takes its maximum value $-\frac{v_0^2}{2a}$.

For (a), assuming this is on the surface of the earth, set a= -9.81 and solve $\frac{v_0^2}{19.62}= 0.440$ for $v_0$.

For (b), since a parabola is symmetric about its midline, take t equal to twice the "t" above, $-\frac{2v_0}{a}$.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
HallsofIvy said:
Well, since the "up to a height of 0.44m" is the height above the starting height, you can take $x_0= 0$. Then $x= v_0t+ \frac{1/2}at^2= \frac{1}{2}a(t^2+ \frac{2v_0}{a}t)$ is a quadratic and we can "complete the square": $x= \frac{a}{2}\left(t^2+ \frac{2v_0}{a}t+ \frac{v_0^2}{a^2}- \frac{v_0^2}{a^2}\right)= \frac{a}{2}\left(x+ \frac{v_0}{a}\right)^2- \frac{v_0^2}{2a^2}$. "a" here is negative so that this is an "upside down" parabola. When $t= -\frac{v_0}{a}$ it takes its maximum value $-\frac{v_0^2}{2a}$.

For (a), assuming this is on the surface of the earth, set a= -9.81 and solve $\frac{v_0^2}{19.62}= 0.440$ for $v_0$.

For (b), since a parabola is symmetric about its midline, take t equal to twice the "t" above, $-\frac{2v_0}{a}$.

2(2.94)/9.81=.599
 
karush said:
a. If a flea can jumps straight up to a height of 0.440m.
what is the initial speed as it leaves the ground.
b. For how much time is it in the air?

ok I am sure we use this equation

$$x=x_0+v_o^t+\frac{1}{2} at^2$$

I watched another YT on this but it got to much complication
better just to come here

For part a), we could use conservation of energy...initially the flea has kinetic energy, and then when it reaches the apex of its jump, it has potential energy:

$$\frac{1}{2}mv_0^2=mgh$$

Solving for $v_0$, we obtain:

$$v_0=\sqrt{2gh}$$

For part b), we could write:

$$h(t)=\frac{t}{2}\left(2v_0-gt\right)$$

We are interested in the non-zero root, hence:

$$t=\frac{2v_0}{g}=\frac{2\sqrt{2gh}}{g}=2\sqrt{\frac{2h}{g}}$$
 

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