Understanding Galileo's Theory of Acceleration

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Huzaifa
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Acceleration Theory
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Galileo's theory of acceleration, specifically addressing the relationship between velocity, time, and distance in the context of freely falling objects and motion on inclined planes. Participants explore the implications of Galileo's findings and the mathematical representations of motion, including the concepts of acceleration and the utility of different formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Galileo concluded the rate of change of velocity with time is a constant for all objects in free fall, leading to the concept of acceleration as a time-based quantity.
  • Others argue that while Galileo's findings apply to simple forms of motion, they may not universally apply to more complex systems, such as compound pendulums or systems with friction.
  • A participant mentions that in some cases, it is possible to express velocity as a function of distance rather than time, suggesting that the choice of formulation can depend on the problem context.
  • Another participant discusses the use of differential equations and the chain rule to derive velocity as a function of distance when a time-based formulation is not easily obtainable.
  • Some participants express confusion over the mathematical representations provided, indicating a need for clearer explanations and context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the universality of Galileo's conclusions regarding acceleration and the relationship between velocity, time, and distance. Multiple competing views remain regarding the applicability of different formulations in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding due to missing context and the complexity of different motion scenarios, suggesting that the discussion may benefit from clearer definitions and examples.

Huzaifa
Messages
40
Reaction score
2
I am not able to understand the following paragraph from my Physics textbook;

"The velocity of an object, in general, changes during its course of motion. Should it be described as the rate of change in velocity with distance or with time? This was a problem even in Galileo's time. It was first thought that this change could be described by the rate of change of velocity with distance. But, through his studies of motion of freely falling objects and motion of objects on an inclined plane, Galileo concluded that the rate of change of velocity with time is a constant of motion for all objects in free fall. On the other hand, the change in velocity with distance is not constant - it decreases with the increasing distance of fall. This led to the concept of acceleration as the rate of change of velocity with time."
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This discussion addresses a body in free fall - and it specifically addresses the effects of gravity.
For the kind of small-scale experiments that Galileo was using (non-orbital), the position of an object in free-fall can be described with a constant acceleration value ##a##. The formula for the height (##y##) is (##y = at^2/2##) - thus it is a function of time (##t##).

The vertical velocity (##v##) as a function of time (##t##), the starting velocity (##v_0##), and acceleration due to gravity (##a##) is quite simply: ##v=v_0+(at)##.

But before Galileo deduced these formulae, it was possible that this change in velocity would turn out to be easier to express as a function of distance. Careful experimentation nailed the formula - and it turned out to be a function of ##t##.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pbuk and Huzaifa
.Scott said:
The vertical velocity (v) as a function of time (t) and the starting velocity (v0) and acceleration due to gravity (a) is quote simple: v=v0+(at2/2).
Please correct this. Also I don't really understand your explanation
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: .Scott
hutchphd said:
Please correct this. Also I don't really understand your explanation
First: I notice that when you quoted my post, you didn't pick up the LaTex correctly - or at least it is not showing correctly in your post as I got it. Hopefully, that is not a cause for confusion.

I fixed the formula (oops) and a few typos (ex, "Care" is now "Careful").

The original explanation provided to @Huzaifa (in post #1) looked good to me. I restated parts of it with a bit more detail - hoping that @Huzaifa would catch on. It's always difficult to try to guess why someone doesn't catch something. In this case, I suspect that the problem is missing pieces of context. But we will only know when @Huzaifa says "got it".
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Huzaifa and hutchphd
.Scott said:
Careful experimentation nailed the formula - and it turned out to be a function of t.
I don't think that's necessarily a universal rule, though. Galileo was studying a particularly simple form of accelerated motion. Isn't is just a matter of the process of the Maths involved? If you take a compound pendulum (or an arrangement of a mass on multiple springs) the force (=acceleration) is a direct function of position and time can be a bit secondary - perhaps not really relevant. There would be alternative ways of presenting a description of the motion and, often, time is a good way but the path is often more convenient form of description. The destination of a shell's trajectory is what counts and time is only a step on the way to the answer.

But this is all a matter of opinion and can lead us to Top Trumps if we're not careful.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Huzaifa
sophiecentaur said:
I don't think that's necessarily a universal rule, though. Galileo was studying a particularly simple form of accelerated motion.
According to the OP:
... through his studies of motion of freely falling objects and motion of objects on an inclined plane, Galileo concluded ...
So I was answering within the context of acceleration due to gravity.
Acceleration due to friction, rocket engines, etc would each have their own equations.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Huzaifa and sophiecentaur
Huzaifa said:
I am not able to understand the following paragraph from my Physics textbook;
It's a discussion of which of two definitions is more useful. If you divide a change in velocity by the distance an object travels during that change in velocity you get a quantity that is less useful.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Huzaifa and DaveE
However in some problems, the differential equation for velocity/speed is such that we can find a close form for the velocity as function of distance ##v(x)## but can't find a close form for the velocity as function of time ##v(t)##.

It is on these problems that we use the chain rule trick to get rid of ##\frac{dv}{dt}## as $$\frac{dv}{dt}=\frac{dv}{dx}\frac{dx}{dt}=v\frac{dv}{dx}$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Richard R Richard, Huzaifa and DaveE
Usually this form of the equations of motion occurs when you have an effectively one-dimensional problem and energy conservation holds. Then you have something like (here written for a usual cartesian component ##x## and the corresponding velocity ##v=\dot{x}##)
$$\frac{m}{2} v^2+V(x)=E.$$
Then you can solve for ##v(x)##
$$v(x)=\pm \sqrt{2m [E-V(x)]}.$$
From this you get a solution in implicit form since ##\dot{x}=v(x)## can be integrated by "separation",
$$t-t_0=\pm \int_{x_0}^x \frac{1}{\sqrt{2m[E-V(x)]}}.$$
You have to carefully deal with the signs of the square root to get the correct solution!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Richard R Richard, Huzaifa and Delta2

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
709
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K