Using magnets to reach near absolute zero?

  • Thread starter Kalrag
  • Start date
  • #1
104
0
Alright, Could you use magnets to slow matter down enough to reach "near" absolute zero? Heres how it would work. You would have a range of magnets in a chamber, and you would inject the chamber with protons. The magnets are comeing from all directions forcing the proton to stay still. Then, it would get so could it would go into the Bose-Einstein effect. Would this work?
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
68
0
Most likely, it won't work. You can't hold a proton motionless with magnetism. They have to be moving in order to be affected by magnetism, unless protons exhibit magnetism at zero velocity.

Only electric fields (static electricity) can effectively affect their motion at very slow speeds, but then, if you put them together, they simply repel each other as far away as possible or get attracted to a grounded object.

However it might be possible with oxygen molecules using pulsed magnetic fields with appropriate frequencies since oxygen molecules are diamagnetic and can be influenced by very strong magnetic fields even at zero velocity. The problem is oxygen molecules will liquefy and even turn to solid long before absolute zero.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
I am a plasma scientist so I work closely with this. This would not work, it's not that your idea isn't a good one, I have often thought about isolation of particles like such, but you fail to realize that particles aren't compressed as such, they will follow the magnetic fields generated. Also the protons could never align, even if you removed all forms of instabilities and completely eliminated the inherent quality of randomness, there could be no electron bonds to keep the protons locked, and if you tried increasing the force to the point where they would be you would force fusion, which just transfers the kinetic energy of the particle. There is no way to lock these particles in space, as well as the fact that if you didn't keep it high energy it would rip electrons from the shells of any wall you would be using for the vacuum. Cold plasma is a tricky situation, and there is no way of controlling it, even under perfect situations. Also you seem to have flawed ideas on the basic principles of the conservation of energy. The protons wouldn't get cold even if you managed the impossible task of locking a plasma which is inherently high energy the kinetic energy of the particles wouldn't go anywhere, as there is no place for that energy to dissipate. In fact we use density to keep plasma high energy because there is less energy loss through motion and more high frequency interaction. Finally it is not the Bose-Einstein effect but rather the Bose-Einstein state of matter which inherently cannot be a plasma. I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
  • #4
104
0
Thanks for responding. Then what are ways to reach near absolute zero and causing the Bose-Einstein effect in large scale. Not with little lasers that only get a couple of particles. Im talking like grams of the Bose-Einstein effect. Is that possible?
 
  • #5
68
0
completely eliminated the inherent quality of randomness
There you go, the random kinetic nature of particles won't get you anywhere!

However, it may be possible to introduce some order into the system by using sound synchronized with pulsing magnetic fields tuned to the sound frequency in such a way to keep slowing the molecules down at each passing wave. There will be a thermometer or hydrophone to monitor sound velocity or wavelength so the pulsing magnetic fields are always in synch with the sound waves.

Helium 3 must be used for its magnetism. It can be cooled to very low temps but I don't know if it's good enough gas for making BEC's.
 
  • #6
Your idea using sound and pulsing magnetics is an innovative one, but you must remember that energy cannot be dispersed by adding more frequency, you just would have atoms that appear to be locked because they are synchronized hitting each other remaining still, but in actuality they'd be going faster, just with less range of movement before collision.
 
  • #7
68
0
Yep, that was a quickly thought up idea. Actually, only the compression front of the wave, will be strongly affected by a repelling magnetic field. The magnetic field would be turned off before the compression front would bounce in the opposite direction.

So that would only serve to dampen the sound, and not cool the gas? If I understand the principle correctly, by slowing the compression front, I'll also be increasing pressure of the low pressure trailing edge of the wave so overall, I don't get any cooling effect.
 
  • #8
Exactly, there is no overall cooling. Now you could extract energy out of the plasma if you managed to induce radiation emission like gamma waves without needing to put in more input then the gamma waves are leaving with, you could then slowly extract the energy out of the plasma until its extremely low energy although in all honesty a plasma wouldn't necessarily be necessary to attempt this, the only added benefit is that it is easier for containment in a vacuum through use of magnetic field.
 

Related Threads on Using magnets to reach near absolute zero?

  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
35
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
14
Views
2K
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
18
Views
5K
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
14
Views
12K
  • Last Post
Replies
13
Views
5K
  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
11
Views
2K
Top