Using volumetric pressure to counter a force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving two opposing cylinders with movable pistons, focusing on the application of Boyle's law to determine the dimensions of one cylinder (C2) based on changes in pressure and volume in another cylinder (C1). The context includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical modeling related to pressure dynamics in sealed systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The initial problem statement describes two cylinders, C1 and C2, with specific pressures and dimensions, and asks for the dimensions of C2 to allow a certain movement of a shaft.
  • Some participants question the application of Boyle's law, suggesting it is incorrectly used for two separate cylinders rather than a single confined fluid.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of assuming constant temperature throughout the process, which is not explicitly stated in the problem.
  • There is a discussion about the phrase "with a minimum of volume," raising questions about whether it refers to minimizing the change in volume or the total volume of cylinder C2.
  • Participants agree on the correctness of the shaft movement description and its implications for the pressure dynamics in C1 and C2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the application of Boyle's law to the problem, with some asserting that it is misapplied while others defend its use. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct interpretation of the problem's conditions and assumptions.

Contextual Notes

Key assumptions about temperature constancy and the interpretation of "minimum volume" are not clearly defined, leading to potential ambiguities in the problem's requirements.

TaylorTexas
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Homework Statement


There are two opposing cylinders, C1 and C2. Each cylinder is sealed. Each cylinder has a movable piston at one end. The pistons of each cylinder face each other. The pistons are connected to each other by a straight Shaft. C1 is connected to an air supply with an initial air pressure of 150 psi. Over time, the air pressure in the air supply, and thus C1, is increased to 157 psi.

The dimensions of C1 is .5" radius and 5" length. the initial air pressure in C2 is 150 psi. What are the dimensions of C2 (Length and Radius), to allow the Shaft to move 4" in the direction of C2 as the pressure increases 7 psi in C1, with a minimum of volume?

Homework Equations


I have used Boyle's law for two cylinders: P1V1=P2V2

The Attempt at a Solution


As the pressure increases in C1, the shaft begins to move right, decreasing the volume, and increasing the pressure in C2. When the shaft moves 4", the pressure in C1 and C2 are equalized and the shaft movement stops.

P1V1=P2V2
Inserting V=π * r12 * h1, I get
P1(π * r12 * h1)=P2(π * r22 * h2)
Where P1=157, r1=.5", h1=5, P2=150, r2=.4, I solve for h2.
Thus, h2=8.1.
So, I would need C2 to be 8.1" long and .4" radius to allow 4" of shaft movement with a change of 7 psi in C1?
 

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I think you have mistakenly applied Boyle's law to two different gases in two different cylinders?
 
TaylorTexas said:
I have used Boyle's law for two cylinders: P1V1=P2V2

As paisiello2 has pointed out, this does not seem correct. Boyle's law relates the pressure and volume of a fluid in a single cylinder (or other confined fluid) before and after some process takes place, provided that the temperature of the fluid does not change. It does not relate the pressure and volume in two different cylinders (or other separate quantities of fluid).
 
TaylorTexas said:
Over time, the air pressure in the air supply, and thus C1, is increased to 157 psi.

A key assumption has been left out of the problem statement: that the temperature of everything stays the same. I'm assuming that was the intent; otherwise everything gets a lot more complicated.

TaylorTexas said:
What are the dimensions of C2 (Length and Radius), to allow the Shaft to move 4" in the direction of C2 as the pressure increases 7 psi in C1, with a minimum of volume?

That last qualifier, "with a minimum of volume", is important. Is that an exact quote? Is the intent that there should be a minimum change in volume in cylinder C2, or that cylinder C2 should have the minimum possible total volume at the end, consistent with the other quantities in the problem?

TaylorTexas said:
As the pressure increases in C1, the shaft begins to move right, decreasing the volume, and increasing the pressure in C2.

Yes, this looks correct.

TaylorTexas said:
When the shaft moves 4", the pressure in C1 and C2 are equalized and the shaft movement stops.

Yes, this looks ok so far. But the next step is key: if the shaft moved 4 inches, what does that tell you? Specifically, what does it tell you about cylinder C1?
 

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