-ve sign in expression of induced emf

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the negative sign in the expression for induced electromotive force (emf) and its implications, particularly in relation to Lenz's Law. Participants explore the conceptual understanding of this negative sign, its significance in determining the direction of induced emf, and its application in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the concept behind the negative sign in the expression for induced emf and its significance regarding direction.
  • Another participant states that the negative sign signifies Lenz's Law, which relates to the direction of the induced emf.
  • A different viewpoint explains Lenz's Law as a reaction that opposes the cause, suggesting that the negative sign ensures correct calculations in the context of induced quantities.
  • Concerns are raised about how the direction of current and magnetic field should be assigned, questioning if there are conventions or concepts that guide this assignment.
  • One participant elaborates on the implications of the negative sign, arguing that without it, induced quantities would align with existing quantities, leading to unbounded power generation and energy creation.
  • Another example is provided regarding a bicycle generator, illustrating how increased electrical output power necessitates a corresponding increase in mechanical input power due to the opposing torque generated by induction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the negative sign and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the assignment of signs or the broader implications of Lenz's Law.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the dependence on definitions and conventions regarding the assignment of signs to current and magnetic fields, which remains unresolved.

abhineetK
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
-ve sign in expression of "induced emf"

What is the concept behind putting negative sign in:
e=-[rate of change of flux]
Which direction does it signify??
How does direction affect the equation?
How and where can we use negative sign in other expressions of induced emf??
 
Physics news on Phys.org


The negative sign basically signifies Lenz's Law which tells you something about the direction of the induced emf.
 


Lenz's Law says it's "such as to oppose its cause", as they told me in School. It's a reaction, in the same way as an object pushes back at you when you try to move it. The negative sign makes the sums come out right.
 


We see that the fact whether the current increases or decreases too affect the equation by making the induced emf -ve or +ve respectively.
How should we assign -/+ signs to current and magnetic field depending on their direction?
Is their any convention or any concept?
 


Think about it if the negative sign was not there. Then, the induced emf/mmf/flux/torque/speed, would be in the same direction as the existing quantity.

A motor is switched on, and the current is great. As the motor picks up speed, the induced current & voltage (mmf/emf) both increase. But the -ve sign, an artifact of Lenz' law, describes the induced quantities as oriented in a direction opposite to the original quantities. Hence the overall current drawn from the power source decreases since the induced current opposes the original.

Otherwise, it would increase, generating more flux, and yet more emf/mmf, yet more current, etc. Power would increase without bound and energy would be created out of thin air.

Lenz' law also covers mechanical quantities like torque and speed. If you pedal a bicycle type generator with no load, you reach a speed of let's say 300 rpm. Now add a significant load, 50 watts. The slight torque you applied pedaling under no load is now opposed by a counter torque due to the induction. When the load current is introduced, it generates a torque whose orientation is opposite to your pedaling torque. Otherwise the speed would keep increasing, with energy being created. In order to preserve the same 300 rpm speed (and the same voltage), you must increase your pedal torque so as to counter the counter torque. So an increase in electrical output power mandates a corresponding increase in mechanical input power.

Does this make sense?

Claude
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 194 ·
7
Replies
194
Views
23K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K