Vector curl problem and potential

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the vector field F = (2xyz + 1, x^2 z, x^2 y) is irrotational and finding the associated potential φ such that ∇φ = F. Participants explore the implications of potential energy and the mathematical processes involved in determining the potential function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss calculating the curl of the vector field as a first step and express uncertainty about the meaning of potential in this context. There are questions about integrating each component of the vector field and how to handle the constants of integration when finding the potential function.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the integration process and the nature of constants of integration, while others are still grappling with the concepts and methods involved. There is a mix of attempts to clarify the relationship between potential functions and vector fields, indicating an ongoing exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. There is also a discussion about the assumptions regarding potential energy and its relation to the problem at hand.

navm1
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Homework Statement


Prove that the vector field F = (2xyz + 1, x^2 z, x^2 y) is irrotational. Find the potential φ associated with F (i.e. find the function φ for which ∇φ = F).

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



I figure for the first part I just calculate the curl, but for the second part, does this mean potential energy? perhaps it is irrelevant to me working out this question but if potential energy is mgx then taking the derivative with respect to x would leave us with a force mg. I am not sure how I would approach the second part. Thanks
 
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Am I to just integrate each component by its respective variable? I am not sure how to calculate ∇φ for a vector function

edit: just by looking at the components I got x^2yz+x because the rest have x^2 still and there would only be a +1 if there had been a x there. not sure if there was a mathematical way to calculate this too
 
Last edited:
navm1 said:

Homework Statement


Prove that the vector field F = (2xyz + 1, x^2 z, x^2 y) is irrotational. Find the potential φ associated with F (i.e. find the function φ for which ∇φ = F).

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



I figure for the first part I just calculate the curl, but for the second part, does this mean potential energy? perhaps it is irrelevant to me working out this question but if potential energy is mgx then taking the derivative with respect to x would leave us with a force mg. I am not sure how I would approach the second part. Thanks
No. Not mgx.

mgx is a potential function for gravitational force near Earth's surface, provided that x is vertical distance.
navm1 said:
Am I to just integrate each component by its respective variable? I'm not sure how to calculate ∇φ for a vector function

edit: just by looking at the components I got x^2yz+x because the rest have x^2 still and there would only be a +1 if there had been a x there. not sure if there was a mathematical way to calculate this too
Yes. Generally you integrate, but you need to be careful and/or clever regarding constants of integration.

This you can get pretty well by inspection.

Look at integration. Consider Fx first.
##\displaystyle\ \frac{\partial }{\partial x}\varphi(x,y,z)=F_x(x,y,z) \ ##

So that ##\displaystyle\ \varphi(x,y,z)=\int F_x(x,y,z)\,dx \ ## , treating y and z as constants.

Thus for this potential we get, ##\displaystyle\ \varphi(x,y,z)=\int (2xyz + 1)\,dx \ = x^2yz + x +C(y,z)##.

Notice that the constant of integration can be a function of y and z. However, if you compare the partial derivatives (w.r.t y and z) of this potential with Fy and Fz respectively, C(y,z) must be constant w.r.t. both y and z, since its partials w.r.t. each is zero.

In contrast to this, let us suppose that you chose to find the potential function by integrating w.r.t. y first. (or z if you wanted to: The choice is yours.)

##\displaystyle\ \varphi(x,y,z)=\int (x^2z)\,dy \ = x^2zy +C(x,z)##

Taking the partial w.r.t. z give Fz just fine so the constant of integration does not depend on z. So write C(x,z) as C(x).

However, ##\displaystyle\ \frac{\partial }{\partial x} (x^2zy +C(x))=2xyz+C'(x)## must be ##\ 2xyz + 1\ ## so ##\ C'(x) = 1\ ## thus ##\ C(x) = x\ + constant\,.##

Plug that back into the potential function.
 
Thanks. That has definitely helped me build a little more intuition for what I was doing
 
Also another quick related question, if I'm asked for the directional derivative in the positive x direction and calculated del-phi of a scalar function to be some (xi+yj) do I just plug numbers into the x component?

edit: I worked out that if I think of that as a vector with components (1,0) then it makes sense
 
Last edited:

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