Velocity Cone in expanding universe

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the interpretation of velocity cones in cosmology, specifically regarding their steep slopes and the relationship to redshift factors. Participants reference Prof. Whittle's figures and Jorrie's calculator to analyze the recession speeds of galaxies at different redshifts, noting that a galaxy with a stretch factor of S = 5 recedes at v = 2c. The conversation emphasizes the consistency between Whittle's figures and Jorrie's calculations, highlighting that both utilize similar cosmic model parameters despite minor discrepancies.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of cosmological redshift and its implications (e.g., S = 1 + z)
  • Familiarity with velocity cones in the context of general relativity
  • Knowledge of the WMAP and Planck data sets in cosmology
  • Proficiency in using calculators for cosmological parameters, such as Jorrie's calculator
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the implications of light cone geometry in cosmology
  • Investigate the differences between WMAP and Planck data sets
  • Learn how to use Jorrie's calculator for various cosmic model parameters
  • Study the concept of cosmic expansion and its effects on light propagation
USEFUL FOR

Astronomers, cosmologists, and physics students interested in understanding the dynamics of the expanding universe and the behavior of light cones in relation to redshift and recession speeds.

say_cheese
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The figures in
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/class/whittle/astr553/Topic16/t16_light_cones.html
are very useful in understanding the various world lines in concordant diagrams. Is there any easy way to see how a velocity cone (at the observer's worldline) from a later time than the Big Bang look like?

Is there any easy way to understand why the light cone has a steep (>2c) slope? Is it the 66.18c that we see in http://www.einsteins-theory-of-relativity-4engineers.com/LightCone7/LightCone.html at early time.

In Cosmology, The Science of the Universe, two velocity cones are given, but the later cone seems to be steeper at the beginning.

I guess I am also asking if there is an excel sheet or a program to make the concordance diagram from the conformal time diagram.
 
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say_cheese said:
The figures in
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/class/whittle/astr553/Topic16/t16_light_cones.html
are very useful...

Is there any easy way to understand why the light cone has a steep (>2c) slope? Is it the 66.18c that we see in http://www.einsteins-theory-of-relativity-4engineers.com/LightCone7/LightCone.html at early time.

Those are nice figures by Prof. Whittle. I especially like the top one. If you want to connect Whittle's figure to Jorrie's calculator you first remember that the stretch factor S = 1+z.
Whittle says that a galaxy whose light comes in stretched by factor S = 1.7 (aka z = 0.7) was receding at v = c/2, when it emitted the light we are now getting.
A galaxy with S = 5 (aka z=4) or slightly more was receding at v = 2c, when it emitted the light.

Do you see that information in the figure?

Let us know if you do not see that information displayed in the figure. I or someone else can help you look for it.

Whittle's figure was dated sometime in 2011 so it cannot be using the very latest 2013 model parameters,but it should give approximately the same figures as Jorrie's calculator, so let's compare.

YES! REMARKABLY CLOSE! I ran Jorrie's calculator between S=5 and S=1.7 selecting WMAP data (the older data set) rather than Planck.
[tex]{\scriptsize\begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|c|c|}\hline R_{0} (Gly) & R_{\infty} (Gly) & S_{eq} & H_{0} & \Omega_\Lambda & \Omega_m\\ \hline 14&16.5&3300&69.8&0.72&0.28\\ \hline \end{array}}[/tex] [tex]{\scriptsize\begin{array}{|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|r|} \hline a=1/S&S&T (Gy)&R (Gly)&D_{now} (Gly)&D_{then}(Gly)&D_{hor}(Gly)&V_{now} (c)&V_{then} (c) \\ \hline 0.200&5.000&1.5689&2.3408&23.932&4.786&7.948&1.71&2.04\\ \hline 0.214&4.670&1.7370&2.5874&23.120&4.951&8.336&1.65&1.91\\ \hline 0.230&4.340&1.9372&2.8795&22.220&5.120&8.762&1.59&1.78\\ \hline 0.249&4.010&2.1785&3.2292&21.213&5.290&9.232&1.52&1.64\\ \hline 0.272&3.680&2.4737&3.6529&20.080&5.457&9.752&1.43&1.49\\ \hline 0.299&3.350&2.8408&4.1727&18.792&5.610&10.328&1.34&1.34\\ \hline 0.331&3.020&3.3063&4.8193&17.312&5.733&10.967&1.24&1.19\\ \hline 0.372&2.690&3.9102&5.6342&15.593&5.797&11.673&1.11&1.03\\ \hline 0.424&2.360&4.7143&6.6721&13.569&5.750&12.448&0.97&0.86\\ \hline 0.493&2.030&5.8176&7.9986&11.157&5.496&13.283&0.80&0.69\\ \hline 0.588&1.700&7.3840&9.6696&8.252&4.854&14.152&0.59&0.50\\ \hline \end{array}}[/tex]

You can see it agrees very closely!

It says Vthen = 0.5 where Whittle says c/2
and it says Vthen = 2.04 where Whittle says 2c.

The differences are probably due to slight differences in the choice of cosmic model parameters. But they are negligible. Essentially everybody is using the same equations.

You can also see in Whittle's figure that the recession speed v = c comes around redshift z = 1.7, which is a wavelength enlargement factor of S = 2.7. Well look at the row labeled S = 2.69 :biggrin: Almost exactly v=c.

Whittle has some very nice course materials! thanks for calling them to our attention.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. I do see the figures and see the agreement with Jorrie's calculator. Great!
 

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