Velocity of a photon from its own reference frame

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a photon's reference frame, particularly whether it can be considered at rest or moving at the speed of light (c). Participants explore implications within the framework of Special Relativity and the nature of reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a photon can have a reference frame, suggesting it leads to contradictions regarding being at rest and moving at c simultaneously.
  • Others point out that this issue might relate to fundamental assumptions in Special Relativity, such as the equivalence of all inertial frames and the constancy of the speed of light.
  • A participant proposes that the definition of a reference frame requires an observer to be at rest, which conflicts with the notion of a photon's frame moving at c.
  • There is mention of the axiom of relativity, indicating that light moves at c in all reference frames, which complicates the existence of a reference frame for a photon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty and explore competing views regarding the existence of a photon's reference frame, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of reference frames and the unresolved implications of assuming a photon's frame exists while adhering to the principles of Special Relativity.

sri sharan
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
So what will it see it self as?? At rest or moving a velocity c? Either way it seems to be a contradiction, so does that mean a photon can't be reference frame?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Exactly. See our FAQ, [thread]511170[/thread].
 
Hmm, shouldn't that be an assumption in Special relativity as well, along with equivalence of all inertial frame, and the light speed one.

or

does it mean that a photon reference frame simply doesn't and cannot exist
 
sri sharan said:
Hmm, shouldn't that be an assumption in Special relativity as well, along with equivalence of all inertial frame, and the light speed one.

or

does it mean that a photon reference frame simply doesn't and cannot exist

Extra assumption not needed. Definition of reference frame of an (inertial) observer: frame in which observer is at rest. Axiom of relativity: light moves at c in all reference frames. Then the reference frame of a photon requires it to simultaneously be at rest and move at c. Contraction. Such a frame is excluded without additional assumptions.
 
yes, I see it now
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Transformation Riemann tensor to an accelerating frame
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Undergrad Increase in surface charge density in different frames of reference
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Undergrad What if one is in 1905 and debating foundational fundamentals?
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
Undergrad Is an accelerating frame the same as an inertial frame at a point?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
High School Am I understanding the concept of proper frame of reference?
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
3K
Undergrad Galilean relativity in terms of homogeneity
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
4K
High School How to measure time in reference frame with clock?
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
High School A difficulty with the equivalence of all inertial reference frames
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
3K
Undergrad Principle of relativity for proper accelerating frame of reference
  • · Replies 144 ·
5
Replies
144
Views
10K
Undergrad Reference frame vs coordinate system
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
6K