Virginia Tech Shootings: Eyewitness Reports & Updates

  • Thread starter robphy
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In summary: This type of thing Must be covered by the press. I find your reasoning rather weak at best. Its nothing to do with the freedom and coverage of information why people do these types of things. IMO I would put the blaime directly on the Guns and culture of violence in the USA, and not on the Press.
  • #36
At this point, we know nothing about the shooter's motivations, and we do not even know if he was shot by police or if it was a suicide. Regardless, it's pointless trying to rationalize the actions of someone who was clearly not rational.

Clearly this person is not rational. The point is that the thought of killing as many people as is possible was placed in his brain by press coverage of other actions like the one today. If that thought was not in his brain to begin with, the incident today in all likelyhood does not take place.

The mass coverage that this shooting will most definitely get, provides an option for other brains to ponder when their brain takes a vacation from rationality. We will see more of this for sure.

We need to laugh at this to counter the option since the press wants everyone on Earth to know about it.
 
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  • #37
Anttech said:
Are you suggesting that woman have the same sexual drive as men? I don't think that would hold up to scientific scrutiny.

Perhaps you are right, the Media is, but the PRESS shouldn't be.

I think woman have higher sex drives. The only time that I can see it being low is if their boyfriend/husband sucks in bed.

Out of my friends, we always out last the girls we are with when it comes to no sex. The girls always give up so easily. One time, my girlfriend gave up only after 30 minutes of saying no sex. :uhh:

Therefore, you know you suck in bed if your girlfriend has a low sex drive.
 
  • #38
Are you suggesting women are frigid compared to men? Do we not get aroused by sexual images? Are we not influenced by sex ads that appeal to us? We are biologically designed to enjoy and seek out sex just like men. In fact, female primates are the ones that most often initiate sex. Heck, bonobo society is held together by the sexual bonds of females! See! This is culture at work, telling you that men are hypersexual, while women are what? Passive receivers? I guess that explains why some guys think expressing how much they'd like to do a chick is manly...
 
  • #39
JasonRox said:
I think woman have higher sex drives. The only time that I can see it being low is if their boyfriend/husband sucks in bed.

Out of my friends, we always out last the girls we are with when it comes to no sex. The girls always give up so easily. One time, my girlfriend gave up only after 30 minutes of saying no sex. :uhh:

Therefore, you know you suck in bed if your girlfriend has a low sex drive.

:wink: I think that's closer to the truth.
 
  • #40
JasonRox said:
I think woman have higher sex drives. The only time that I can see it being low is if their boyfriend/husband sucks in bed.

Out of my friends, we always out last the girls we are with when it comes to no sex. The girls always give up so easily. One time, my girlfriend gave up only after 30 minutes of saying no sex. :uhh:

Therefore, you know you suck in bed if your girlfriend has a low sex drive.

You just set a record for getting off topic. And for ignorance of human sexuality.
 
  • #41
So psychopathy is masculine?
No its an Illness, I am talking about the violence actually. Also the root cause of that violence. Violence is not a feminan attribute, its a masculine one.
 
  • #42
Heh, I agree. Sorry, I'm as relentless as one of the Erinyes on this topic. Somebody has to do be:biggrin:
 
  • #43
I'm pretty sure this sort of thing has nothing at all to do with suicidal people. These are psychopaths and megalomaniacs that take pleasure in the pain and suffering of others. They consider it a source of amusement and have no concept of sympathy. People who are considering suicide are overly-sympathetic and, often rightfully so, feel misunderstood. The two are completely different.

That isn't to say a psycopath wouldn't be motivated to a higher level of brutality by viewing the behavior of other psycopaths. It seems to be a competitive field.

I'm pretty sure it isn't about a lost girlfriend or a psychotic break. This was planned and required logical thought. People who are picked on or dumped or failed would go after the source of their anger. I haven't heard about any specific target so I'm presuming his targets were random. I'm guessing he was just psycopath and wanted to show the world how strong he is and how weak everyone else is by hurting as many people as he could.

By the way, for a short time in 97 I used to date a girl that went to that same school.
 
  • #44
Anttech said:
No its an Illness, I am talking about the violence actually. Also the root cause of that violence. Violence is not a feminan attribute, its a masculine one.

But isn't the root of violence psychopathic? Not being able to empathize with those you are violent towards?

I guess you're thinking of the root of violence as being dominance, which still seems related to lack of connection and empathy.

Violence, though, is described as unjust and unwarranted, so is masculinity tied to injustice?
 
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  • #45
Eyewitness reports are being listed at http://www.roanoke.com/news/wb/xp-113296
 
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  • #46
LYN I was talking about Geert Hofstede's theory of society. I don't say nor do I think that Masculinity means being a psychopath, but it usually means Violence is used before diplomacy to solve an issue, it also means a whole host of other things too, which arent all bad.

IMO I see violence through the whole of American society today, from this episode to recent wars and also the bravdo (you bunch of nancy's) abuse I have seen thrown at the UK because it took a more diplomatic approach to its recent Issues with Iran.
 
  • #47
What I want to know is how this guy managed to shoot so many people without getting tackled by a group of them...
 
  • #48
edward said:
You just set a record for getting off topic. And for ignorance of human sexuality.

Hey I believe that's my record:wink:
 
  • #49
I'm pretty sure this sort of thing has nothing at all to do with suicidal people.

So you think this person had plans of walking out of there alive? Going to jail for the rest of his life?

He knew he was going to die. He just wants to be remembered, and taken seriously. The press gives him both those things. In a nutshell he was content with that.
 
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  • #50
0TheSwerve0 said:
Are you suggesting women are frigid compared to men? Do we not get aroused by sexual images? Are we not influenced by sex ads that appeal to us? We are biologically designed to enjoy and seek out sex just like men. In fact, female primates are the ones that most often initiate sex. Heck, bonobo society is held together by the sexual bonds of females! See! This is culture at work, telling you that men are hypersexual, while women are what? Passive receivers? I guess that explains why some guys think expressing how much they'd like to do a chick is manly...

Ohh quiet trying to put words in my mouth. :smile: I am saying that Mens libido's are stronger than Woman, why is it that hardly heard of Woman raping men? Woman perhaps have more control of there sex drive, or is it just that it isn't as strong as a mans. There are definite Biological (historical, pre-society) reasons for this anyway.

No I don't think woman are frigid, and I know woman enjoy fantasising over images as much as men do. BUT I still am firm in my belief that mens sex drive is stronger than that of womans. Anyway to counter your example, why isn't the rest of the world like the Bonobo's ? Please don't tell me its because we are all culturally wrong :wink::yuck:
 
  • #51
edward said:
You just set a record for getting off topic. And for ignorance of human sexuality.

Better than no record. :biggrin:
 
  • #52
Anttech said:
Ohh quiet trying to put words in my mouth. :smile: I am saying that Mens libido's are stronger than Woman, why is it that hardly heard of Woman raping men? Woman perhaps have more control of there sex drive, or is it just that it isn't as strong as a mans. There are definite Biological (historical, pre-society) reasons for this anyway.

No I don't think woman are frigid, and I know woman enjoy fantasising over images as much as men do. BUT I still am firm in my belief that mens sex drive is stronger than that of womans. Anyway to counter your example, why isn't the rest of the world like the Bonobo's ? Please don't tell me its because we are all culturally wrong :wink::yuck:

Men raping woman doesn't imply that their sexual drive is higher.

I see girls "strutting" their stuff for sex everyday at school. I don't see guys doing this everyday. I see them checking out girls and talking about them, but that's about it.
 
  • #53
I guess online classes will be more popular from now on :uhh:
 
  • #54
Quaoar said:
What I want to know is how this guy managed to shoot so many people without getting tackled by a group of them...

For the same reason that a plane full of passengers will sit in their seats while their plane is hijacked by a guy with a razor. They are afraid they are going to die.

Few people without conditioning to circumstances that could cause their death have the ability to act rationally in a situation where they are confronted by it. I remember one time when I was in the navy and a general quarters was called. We were told that United States aircraft were shot down off the coast of Cuba. We happened to be coming around the coast of Florida on our way to Norfolk,VA from Mardi Gras in New Orleans. As everyone was in a panic to get dressed they were getting in each others way. I saw one guy leap down a flight of stairs and smash his face into the bulkhead at the bottom. He got right back up and started running. At my station in the magazines I was more concerned that if we had to move any ammunition that someone would be crushed by a forklift or have a pair of 2000 pound bombs dropped on their legs than I was about any threat from outside the ship.Turns out the planes were small prop planes that were dropping leaflets over Cuba.

In situations like this group thought takes over. The ability to be rational is diminished by fear and automatic responses take over. People tend to cluster in groups for protection like herd animals. Remember the fire at the club in Rhode Island where over a hundred people died because they jammed themselves in the exit when there were windows all over that they could easily have escaped from. Only a few did so. And as more people become afraid, the stronger the impulse to be react in fear becomes. Heroes die first.
 
  • #55
Men raping woman doesn't imply that their sexual drive is higher.
So what does it imply then, the opposite? That woman are enticing men to rape them by "strutting their stuff?"
Didnt think so.

A woman wanting to attract the opposite sex by looking good, does not imply that she want to have intercourse.

Look I will concede their are women out their with very high sex drive and men with low ones, but in general, and on average that isn't the case.

Lets get back on topic :smile:
 
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  • #56
For the same reason that a plane full of passengers will sit in their seats while their plane is hijacked by a guy with a razor.

When did that happen?
 
  • #57
Anttech said:
LYN I was talking about Geert Hofstede's theory of society. I don't say nor do I think that Masculinity means being a psychopath, but it usually means Violence is used before diplomacy to solve an issue, it also means a whole host of other things too, which arent all bad.

IMO I see violence through the whole of American society today, from this episode to recent wars and also the bravdo (you bunch of nancy's) abuse I have seen thrown at the UK because it took a more diplomatic approach to its recent Issues with Iran.

What I was actually trying to say is that I think popular depictions of masculinity have become borderline psychopathic, even if that wasn't your claim. I was writing specifically of depictions in American film. Looking back at older westerns, the heroes were usually men who were independent and solitary and who remained strong in the face of violence, stoically defending their towns or families, and that seems to have changed.

Looking back at the best western of the last two decades, Unforgiven, the climax occurs when the hero finally breaks out of his self-imposed restraint and becomes the cold-blooded killer he used to be, slaughtering a bar full of people. Then we have the whole "wronged man forced to get revenge" motif that forms the plot of every Mel Gibson film, many Schwargenegger films, and even a Denzel Washington film with Man on Fire, and plenty of lesser actors like John Cena or Vin Diesel. Some guy has his family threatened or killed by some kind of terrorist or thug and is forced to go on a killing spree to burn through an entire network of criminals just to get at the man he's actually after. The El Mariachi films did the same thing, as did Kill Bill, with the interesting twist that the hero is a female.

Heck, look at the way James Bond films have changed. Sean Connery and even more recently Pierce Brosnan mostly just looked good, got the girls, were witty and charming, and slickly killed when they needed to. Daniel Craig gets down in the trenches being tortured and beating people to death against porcelain urinals. Masculine heroes don't resort to violence any more, and the violence isn't restrained or reasonable. Violence is now the first and only means of getting results, and it is far out of proportion to what any reasonable would consider necessary. We have Daniel Craig killing a man by repeatedly slamming his head against a urinal. Denzel Washington kills a man by placing a bomb inside of his rectum. Arnold flies a Harrier jet up to a building, blowing out an entire floor of the building because a terrorist inside kidnapped his daughter. These behaviors go beyond masculine violence and in my opinion constitute glorified psychopathic behavior.

Maybe the latest greatest example is 300. These guys were glad that Greece was being invaded, since it gave them an excuse to kill and be killed in battle. They murdered infants with weaknesses, slaughtered captives rather than take prisoners, and lived their entire lives wanting to die at the edge of a sword. This is the kind of behavior being celebrated as masculine. We were joking in a creative writing workshop a few weeks back about how men hope to be attacked to give themselves an excuse to fight someone. I personally joked about waiting for the day that someone tries to break into my house and I can legally and justly kill a man. Sure, we were all joking, but we grew up in a place where this behaviors are actually celebrated in popular culture. Part of me really does want that. When there was a huge surge in military enlistment right after 9/11, how many of those teenage boys do you think had spent the last few years just waiting for a just reason to go shoot some towel heads? There was a lot of rhetoric going around about 'waking the sleeping giant.' People were excited at the chance to go kick some ass, and we're not talking about a little street fight. This was air raids and surgical ground strikes, the calculated deaths of hundreds of thousands of enemy combatants. What kind of masculinity exists when men are excited by something like that?
 
  • #58
Rape is a crime of violence. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with physical attraction. What kind of psyche does it take to be sexually stimulated by a woman screaming and muelling "no,no" and crying her eyes out, face all clenched up in fear and disgust. That isn't sex drive. That's the violent act of making people into animals.

And it certainly has nothing to do with school shootings, unless there is some recent update I haven't heard in the news yet.
 
  • #59
For the same reason that a plane full of passengers will sit in their seats while their plane is hijacked by a guy with a razor. They are afraid they are going to die.
This simply is not true anymore. More like the hijacker will not hijack because they know they will fail. 911 took care of that. The passenger now has a mindset of kill or be killed. This makes bad odds for hijackers. The hijacking problem has been solved.
 
  • #60
Anttech said:
So what does it imply then, the opposite? That woman are enticing men to rape them by "strutting their stuff?"
Didnt think so.

A woman wanting to attract the opposite sex by looking good, does not imply that she want to have intercourse.

Look I will concede their are women out their with very high sex drive and men with low ones, but in general, and on average that isn't the case.

Lets get back on topic :smile:

It doesn't imply anything period.

You're making it a fact that the average man has a higher sex drive than men. I disagree.
 
  • #61
This thread is like a train that derailed at the platform.
 
  • #62
Castlegate said:
This simply is not true anymore. More like the hijacker will not hijack because they know they will fail. 911 took care of that. The passenger now has a mindset of kill or be killed. This makes bad odds for hijackers. The hijacking problem has been solved.
That would seem rational. I remember one time in high school the class had to each prick our fingers for a drop of blood. Some people had to place their hand against a hard surface to force the metal deep enough to draw blood. A few passed out completely before they could even prick themselves. It's not a completely rational process. I'm not at all convinced that the same thing wouldn't happen today under the same circumstances.
 
  • #63
Jason said:
It doesn't imply anything period.

You're making it a fact that the average man has a higher sex drive than men. I disagree.
Im not making anything, I am stating, or rather asserting. You can disagree as much as you like, but you are flying in the face of science.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/malesexualresponse.htm
For example.
It makes absolute sense from an evolution perspective that men have a higher sex drive than women. The more women you have sex with the more baby, and the better the change your genes carry on.

For an economical perspective just look at the porn industry, a capitalistic, market driven, industry. If the modern woman wanted porn she would get it, but you don't see at as much as mens porn, simply because there isn't the demand for it.

anyway... why don't we start another thread if you want to continue this :smile:
 
  • #64
Castlegate said:
So you think this person had plans of walking out of there alive? Going to jail for the rest of his life?

He knew he was going to die. He just wants to be remembered, and taken seriously. The press gives him both those things. In a nutshell he was content with that.

No, I don't think he planned on walking out alive. I am not certain he planned on killing himself either, although he was probably prepared to do so. I think he intended to martyr himself and would rather kill himself than be captured. His own suicide wasn't the cause of the murders. It was an effect.

Because a person is suicidal does not mean in any way that they are a psychopath and prone to this behavior.
 
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  • #65
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  • #66
Anttech said:
Ohh quiet trying to put words in my mouth. :smile: I am saying that Mens libido's are stronger than Woman, why is it that hardly heard of Woman raping men? Woman perhaps have more control of there sex drive, or is it just that it isn't as strong as a mans. There are definite Biological (historical, pre-society) reasons for this anyway.

No I don't think woman are frigid, and I know woman enjoy fantasising over images as much as men do. BUT I still am firm in my belief that mens sex drive is stronger than that of womans. Anyway to counter your example, why isn't the rest of the world like the Bonobo's ? Please don't tell me its because we are all culturally wrong :wink::yuck:
My point was that women would be the target market for media depicting male's sexuality...you brought up the libido.:rolleyes:
You say there is less demand, I say there was never a supply. A lot of societal aspects go into conditioning women to not seek sexual images of men out. Yet, look at "300." Seems women were buzzing about this.And your article was written by David Delvin, GP and family planning specialist and Christine Webber, psychotherapist. Not exactly hard science...
 
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  • #67
Ill dig up some hard science if you want... But first I sleep, Its late over here..
 
  • #68
Put it in a new thread, too. Nighty night:zzz:
 
  • #69
Why is a thread on VA Tech killings now discussing women's libidos? If you want to discuss sex drive, discuss it in Biology or Mind and Brain. This isn't the time or place for that discussion. Let's get this thread back on topic ASAP or it's going to be locked.
 
  • #70
Wow that is crazy! Why did no one attempt to take down the gunman? I can't say exactly what I would do in the situation, since I was not in it, but I would probably try to take the guy down. Why not? If I die, well then I don't have to worry about school :smile: and if I am successful then I am a hero :smile:
 

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