Virtual work in Atwood's machine

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the application of Lagrange's equations to the Atwood's machine, specifically addressing the treatment of tension in the rope as negligible. The participants clarify that the constraint is holonomic, meaning that while forces do work, the total work sums to zero due to the constraint equation. The only external force acting on the system is gravity, which is conservative. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding how constraints affect the dynamics of the system, particularly in the context of Lagrangian mechanics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrange's equations in classical mechanics
  • Familiarity with holonomic constraints and their implications
  • Basic knowledge of conservative forces, particularly gravitational force
  • Ability to perform analytical deductions from constraint equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Lagrange's equations from Newton's laws
  • Explore examples of holonomic and non-holonomic constraints in mechanics
  • Learn about conservative forces and their role in mechanical systems
  • Investigate the implications of massless and frictionless pulleys in dynamics
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those focusing on classical mechanics, as well as educators seeking to clarify concepts related to Lagrangian dynamics and constraints.

kiuhnm
Messages
66
Reaction score
1
The first chapter in Goldstein's Classical Mechanics ends with 3 examples about how to apply Lagrange's eqs. to simple problems. The second example is about the Atwood's machine. The book says that the tension of the rope can be ignored, but I don't understand why. The two masses can move vertically and the constraining forces (one on each mass) have the same vertical direction so shouldn't they do virtual work?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The constraint is holonomic: forces do work, but the sum of the work is zero by virtue of the constraint equation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kiuhnm
In the case of the Atwood's machine the motion is one-dimensional and you have only one coordinate, which by the way, is your generalized coordinate.

The only external force is gravity, which is conservative. There follows the calculations.
 
BvU said:
The constraint is holonomic: forces do work, but the sum of the work is zero by virtue of the constraint equation.

OK, thanks. I was confused by the remark "This trivial problem emphasizes that the forces of constraint--here the tension in the rope--appear nowhere in the Lagrangian formulation."
Let's say I want to be extremely formal. How would I proceed? The constraint is ##x_1+x_2=l##, where ##x_i## is the position of the ##i##-th mass. How do I deduce from that, analytically, that the sum of the constraint forces is ##0##?

edit: On second thought, I think the pulley is there just to physically justify the constraint. The pulley is massless and frictionless so the text of the problem is basically saying to ignore it and identify it with the constraint.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
14K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K