Watching Hawks in Nature: Is My Thought Correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of hawk flight, particularly focusing on the effects of wing positioning on air pressure, force, and acceleration. Participants explore concepts related to aerodynamics, air resistance, and the physics of flight, with an emphasis on understanding the implications of closing wings while hunting.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that closing a hawk's feathers reduces air pressure and increases its power due to a smaller area, leading to greater speed.
  • Another participant corrects the initial claim, stating that force (F) is not the same as power and that reducing area actually decreases force in the context of the equation presented.
  • A participant proposes the idea of two forces: the hawk's force and the air's force, questioning whether reducing air pressure leads to a smaller opposing force.
  • Another participant speculates that the reduction in area might mean that the same force acts over a smaller area, potentially affecting air resistance.
  • A participant mentions a conversation about air resistance and fluid mechanics, indicating that the relationship is complex and not straightforward.
  • A later reply suggests that understanding the theory of flight requires foundational knowledge, indicating the complexity of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between wing positioning, air pressure, and force. There is no consensus on the mechanics involved, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of how these forces interact during flight.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of fluid mechanics and aerodynamics, indicating that assumptions about force and pressure may depend on specific conditions and definitions. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or conceptual uncertainties raised.

Hepic
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I am in nature,and I am watching hawks motion. I knew it before and saw it live now,that when the hawk see the animal that wants to eat,close its feather to go faster.
I made a thought,and I would like to tell me if it is correct or anything is missed.

I think that closing its feather,make air pressure smaller because its area becomes smaller,so its power becomes bigger(F,power = P,pressure * A,area).
Also because its power becomes bigger,its acceleration becomes bigger too(F = m*a).
For that reason we have bigger speed. (a = du/dt)

Is that right?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Hepic said:
I think that closing its feather,make air pressure smaller because its area becomes smaller,so its power becomes bigger(F,power = P,pressure * A,area).
F is force, not power in that equation. And making A smaller makes F smaller not bigger there.

They fold their wings to reduce the drag force, which brakes them.
 
I see. So we can suppose that we have two forces: F1 is hawk's force and F2 air's force ?
And after to suppose that F1 stays the same,but F2 becomes smaller cause pressure of air becomes smaller?

Am I wrong again or no?
 
Or maybe it is not about pressure,but it is become closing its winger the hawk,the same force as before now pushes the hawk in lesser area.
So the whole force is lesser? (air resistance with few words)
 
Hepic said:
air resistance with few words
Yes as I said.
 
I asked a guy also,about air resistance.
I asked him,why air resistance becomes smaller when we minimize our area,and he answered me that it is about fluid mechanics.
Also he told me that it is a bit complicated and not so straightforward as in classic mechanic.
Is that true?
 
Hepic
Well, you are jumping into the theory of flight by energy into the deep end first ! :wink:
It's usually best to start with fixed wing aircraft first and that's hard enough.
AS with most of Nature, we're dealing with a very complicated form of 'Engineering' with birds. The wing has variable geometry and provides both lift and power. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to look at a website that deals with basics of flying (this one is long but has loads of ideas in it) And here's another one. Or you could just google around and find something to your taste; there are loads of them
 
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