What are some methods for plotting the path of a particle in a magnetic bottle?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter foxjwill
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Application Magnetic
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for plotting the path of a particle in a magnetic bottle, specifically focusing on the magnetic field generated by coaxial circular loops of wire. Participants explore both analytical and numerical approaches to simulate the particle's trajectory under the influence of magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using Biot-Savart's law to calculate the magnetic field and the Lorentz force to determine the particle's path.
  • Another participant notes the complexity of the situation, indicating that analytical solutions may require significant approximations.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about coding proficiency and seeks advice on the best programming language for simulations.
  • One contributor shares their experience with Java and C++, stating that Java is effective for simulations but mentions challenges with 3D plotting.
  • Another participant recommends making the loops perfectly conducting and using numerical integration methods, such as Euler's method or the fourth-order Runge-Kutta method, to solve the equations of motion.
  • There is a suggestion to simplify the problem by plotting only two dimensions initially to visualize the results more easily.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the feasibility of analytical versus numerical solutions, with no consensus on the best approach or programming language. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most effective methods for approximation and simulation.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for simplifications and approximations, such as assuming fixed current in the loops and considering only two dimensions for initial plots. There is also uncertainty about the effectiveness of different programming languages for this type of simulation.

foxjwill
Messages
350
Reaction score
0
I was wondering about a good application to plot the path of a particle in a magnetic bottle (i.e. the magnetic field in the region between two coaxial circular loops of wire)

I was thinking that maybe I could use Biot Savert's (sp.) law

[tex]d\textbf{B} = \frac{\mu_0}{4\pi} \frac{Id\textbf{l} \times \textbf{\hat{r}}}{r^2}[/tex]

and

[tex]d\textbf{F} = q\textbf{v} \times d\textbf{B}[/tex]

but, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have a good application for that. Worse comes the worse, I could try and write a program to do it, but

  1. I don't know what method of approximation to use, and
  2. I'm not very good at coding.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Thats a surprisingly complex situation; you won't be able to plot it analytically unless you take some drastic approximations.
I suggest... either you find an animation of it online (shouldn't be hard). Or you learn to code and find a numerical solution.
 
err... I know how to code, but I can never seem to get my programs to work right. I know java, but I'm not sure if that's the best language to use for this. Any ideas?
 
I've used java and C++, and i find java to work well for programming simulations (at least for my purposes). The problem is going to be plotting in 3D. Java 2D works great, but i hear that 3D is pretty rough (though I've never tried it).
 
Ok, then, I'll look into java 3d. But what method(s) should I use for approximation?
 
Well, make the loops perfectly conducting, with a fixed constant current in each (should be going in the same direction).
From that you can use the Biot-Savart law to find the magnetic field everywhere--> you'll need to set up the B = integral_____... then use some method of numerical integration. the fourth order runga-kutta is the standard method for numerical integration, but i'd recommend a simple Euler's method (at least to start with). Once you have the magnetic fields everywhere, you can use the lorentz force equations to find the acceleration --> numerically integrate to find velocity --> and again to find positions as a function of time.
Does that make sense?
One simplification to start with, would be to only plot 2 of the 3 dimensions, it would surely give you something cool to look at!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K