What Are Some Tips for Successful Gardening?

[turbo]

Sure. We didn't specify location or method. Basically this is about growing plants any which way. Hydroponics counts too.

There is a 24-acre greenhouse being built a few miles from my house by US Functional Foods. Their intention is to supply high-quality vine-ripened tomatoes to the NE markets, and eventually to branch out into peppers, etc. I have met their master grower, and the plants will be fed hydroponically, rooted in rock wool. The vines will be up to 20 feet tall, and will have to be tended from scissors lifts. There will be no pesticides at all, just biological controls, like ladybugs to eat aphids, etc, and the flowers will be fertilized by resident bumblebees. Their intention is to capture the quality market, and after talking to the master grower, I'm certain they will pull it off.

 

[Pythagorean]

Sure. We didn't specify location or method. Basically this is about growing plants any which way. Hydroponics counts too.

Well, in that case, I have a couple plants, and since we are getting so much light right now, they are producing lots of leaves. I had them all under the high pressure sodium for a while (even the beans and thyme) but the thyme started growing AWAY from the light and the bean's bigger leaves were starting to yellow, so I put them back in natural sunlight.

My other two plants stayed under the sodiums until one died (it was a clone, and never developed its root system before shriveling up and dying) but the other one seems to be going pretty well. They love Bat Guano.

I'm trying to figure out whether I should take it off 24 hour light yet, maybe start cutting in a couple hours of darkness.

 

[turbo]

I'm trying to figure out whether I should take it off 24 hour light yet, maybe start cutting in a couple hours of darkness.

That would be a nice experiment. Is it possible that plants could stand a little break from photosynthesis every day? Kind of like a refreshing nap?

 

[Astronuc]

I'm trying to figure out whether I should take it off 24 hour light yet, maybe start cutting in a couple hours of darkness.

That would be a nice experiment. Is it possible that plants could stand a little break from photosynthesis every day? Kind of like a refreshing nap?

I think plants do need a cycle of light and dark. That is the evironment to which plants below the polar (arctic and antarctic) circles have adapted.

IIRC, from biology (~35 years ago) there is a light and a dark phase in plant metabolism, i.e. plants have circadian rythms just as animals do, and plant hormones are affected by them. I seem to recall a 'dark' photosynthesis, but offhand I don't remember the details.

It would make for an interesting experiment as turbo indicated.

We need an herbologist here.

 

[turbo]

I think plants do need a cycle of light and dark. That is the evironment to which plants below the polar (arctic and antarctic) circles have adapted.

IIRC, from biology (~35 years ago) there is a light and a dark phase in plant metabolism, i.e. plants have circadian rythms just as animals do, and plant hormones are affected by them. I seem to recall a 'dark' photosynthesis, but offhand I don't remember the details.

A quick search turned this up:

http://www.mcdb.ucla.edu/Research/Tobin/research.html

Apparently plants do have circadian rhythms the help them to regulate their behaviors. It is entirely possible that keeping a plant in light all day every day will supress some functions controlled by that rhythm, including flowering, seed depelopment, sensitivity to light, etc.

 

[Pythagorean]

I think plants do need a cycle of light and dark. That is the evironment to which plants below the polar (arctic and antarctic) circles have adapted.

IIRC, from biology (~35 years ago) there is a light and a dark phase in plant metabolism, i.e. plants have circadian rythms just as animals do, and plant hormones are affected by them. I seem to recall a 'dark' photosynthesis, but offhand I don't remember the details.

It would make for an interesting experiment as turbo indicated.

We need an herbologist here.

Well, this is the plan that most grower's relate to me (I've learned through word of mouth and online web pages, and there seems to be a concensus:)

The general method is to start out on 24 hour light cycle (basically, always light) to promote leaf growth, and then at some point, you start cutting in dark hours, like 2 at first, then 4, then 6. According to most claims, the ideal situation is that you get it down to 12 light / 12 dark by the time you want your plants to bud.

I've actually heard that for the 12/12 budding cycle, for the best results, not a single photon should hit your plant leaves during it's 12 hours of darkness. I have a friend that uses a spectrometer to make sure (i mean, realistically, I'm sure plenty of photons hit the plant, but its about reducing the numbers as much as you can).

Of course, as well, most of you who garden would know the three numbers on most nutrient packs you by stand for:

roots-bloom-leaves, which I believe represent the nutrients:
nitrogen-potassium-phosphorus

So the majority of nutrients that you give your plants should represent the cycle or phase they're currently in. So, obviously, you want high-nitrogen when they first start out, to ensure a good root system, and then high potassium when they're growing, so they get lots of leaves. The more leaf surface area, the better they can photosynthensize, which leads to the final phase, blooming/budding where you want more phosphorus.

 

[turbo]

So the majority of nutrients that you give your plants should represent the cycle or phase they're currently in. So, obviously, you want high-nitrogen when they first start out, to ensure a good root system, and then high potassium when they're growing, so they get lots of leaves. The more leaf surface area, the better they can photosynthensize, which leads to the final phase, blooming/budding where you want more phosphorus.

I have never gardened that way, just amended the soil with rotted cow manure, organic fertilizer, etc and let 'em go. Do you have an on-line reference for this stage-by-stage fertilization?

I am in a bit of a quandry with my hot peppers. I tend to keep them in the center of the garden, so they can be weeded more easily, and to help protect them from the deer (deer LOVE pepper plants). The problem is that since I fertilize all the soil in the garden, the pepper plants have a lot of nitrogen available to them, and they tend to over-produce leaves and under-produce peppers, although the peppers they produce are large and very hot.

 

[Astronuc]

I am in a bit of a quandry with my hot peppers. I tend to keep them in the center of the garden, so they can be weeded more easily, and to help protect them from the deer (deer LOVE pepper plants). The problem is that since I fertilize all the soil in the garden, the pepper plants have a lot of nitrogen available to them, and they tend to over-produce leaves and under-produce peppers, although the peppers they produce are large and very hot.

Cut back on the nitrogen perhaps. One way would be to select a piece of the garden for the peppers and exchange nitrogen rich soil with some with less nitrogen. Or grow something like corn on the back side (wrt sun) which uses a lot of nitrogen.

 

[turbo]

That's a good suggestion. I have already done the obvious things, like planting nitrogen fixing legumes at the far end of the garden-as far from the peppers as I could.

 

[Pythagorean]

I have never gardened that way, just amended the soil with rotted cow manure, organic fertilizer, etc and let 'em go. Do you have an on-line reference for this stage-by-stage fertilization?

well, this isn't exactly a garden. All my plants are potted, because I live in a very cold region, where most of the plants you buy at the store won't survive the winter (-40 degrees, C or F, you pick)

As for the stage by stage fertilization, I don't necissarily have an online reference, because I talk with the people at the stores where I buy nutrients, but I'm sure I could dig something up...

here we go, here's a slide that discusses the three main nutrients:

http://www.trianglevegsociety.org/presentations/veggardening/sld011.htm

I don't know if it's entirely trustworthy though, because it claims Bat Guano is good for phosphorus (for the roots) but my package of bat guano says 10-2-1, implying it his high nitrogen for leaves and stem.

 

[Pythagorean]

\The problem is that since I fertilize all the soil in the garden, the pepper plants have a lot of nitrogen available to them, and they tend to over-produce leaves and under-produce peppers, although the peppers they produce are large and very hot.

You might want to supplement your pepers with potassium, since it helps with the blooming/budding phase. Since it has plenty of leaves, it should be able to quickly convert potassium into produce, as long as peppers follow the same chemistry (I don't know where the NPK's usefulness ends).

Here's another linky

from http://www.echonews.com/1004/gardening.html

Nitrogen is responsible for promoting rapid shoot growth in plants, and is one of the elements that is most freely available to the home gardener. There is oodles of it in the grass clippings we put through our compost heaps. Nitrogen is a gaseous element which means it can be obtained from the air. Plants from the legume family such as beans and peas live symbiotically with bacteria in their roots which act as conduits to deliver this important nutrient to their host plant.

Phosphorus is as essential for root and shoot growth in plants, as it is for bone and embryo development in humans. Overuse of superphosphate chemicals in the farming industry have given this element a bad name, but used sparingly in the home garden is it a vital plant growth stimulant.

Fertilisers for flowering plants will be high in potassium because it stimulates the production of buds. Likewise it is important for trees which produce fruits and species of fruiting vegetables such as capsicums, cucumbers and tomatoes. In a crude form potassium is available from pot-ashes, but it is important never to overuse these in the garden. Mix a small quantity in with some compost and use the mix as a mulch around plants.

 

[turbo]

You might want to supplement your pepers with potassium, since it helps with the blooming/budding phase. Since it has plenty of leaves, it should be able to quickly convert potassium into produce, as long as peppers follow the same chemistry (I don't know where the NPK's usefulness ends).

Here's another linky

from http://www.echonews.com/1004/gardening.html

Thank you, thank you. Now I have something to try while my peppers are still in the flowering/fruiting stage.

Likewise it is important for trees which produce fruits and species of fruiting vegetables such as capsicums, cucumbers and tomatoes.

And as luck would have it my peppers are located directly between my cucumbers and tomatoes. JOY! Astronuc, thank you for starting this thread!

 

[Pythagorean]

Thank you, thank you. Now I have something to try while my peppers are still in the flowering/fruiting stage.

And as luck would have it my peppers are located directly between my cucumbers and tomatoes. JOY!

No problem, glad to help. Be careful to not use too much and to dillute it a lot. I killed my first plant with potassium before it even had more than two leves (learning experience). I actually just realizing now that that was the culprit, because I've kept the same phosphorus and nitrogen levels up.

 

[Astronuc]

I generally focussed on the phosphate use when the plants are seedlings in order to promote root growth. The nitrogen comes in as the plant grows - more leaves and branches. Then back to K and P when the fruit comes.

I use Miracle Grow 15-30-15, and use it rather sparingly - I have a box with packets, and I use about 1 packet per season.

 

[Pythagorean]

I generally focussed on the phosphate use when the plants are seedlings in order to promote root growth. The nitrogen comes in as the plant grows - more leaves and branches. Then back to K and P when the fruit comes.

I use Miracle Grow 15-30-15, and use it rather sparingly - I have a box with packets, and I use about 1 packet per season.

I think this is what I used when I overdid it and killed my first plant (15-30-15, not sure if it was miraclegro. It was dark green and came with a dropper in the lid)

Since, I've used single 10-2-1 and 1-10-1 products; I'm avoiding the potassium until it's budding time.

 

[eveseh]

well it grown witin his wish
it grown nicely

 

[Astronuc]

I think this is what I used when I overdid it and killed my first plant (15-30-15, not sure if it was miraclegro. It was dark green and came with a dropper in the lid)

Since, I've used single 10-2-1 and 1-10-1 products; I'm avoiding the potassium until it's budding time.

The Miracle Gro 15-30-15 is a dark greenish-blue, and as I said, I use it sparingly. The unamended soil is pretty deficient in minerals - it's mostly clay and rock. In areas, we've dug in grass clippings and leaves (decayed oak and maple). We have two large compost piles of grass, leaves, weeds, and kitchen scraps. We also add a large quantity of composted manure.


I added a new variety of blackberry cultivar to the blackberry patch. Hopefully it will do as well as the original. Some of the canes on the older plants got burned that passed week. A combination of the heat and probably a little too much sulfur added to the newly worked soil. I should have waited longer to apply the sulfur, after the new roots had set and the new canes started.

 

[Evo]

I think the pears are ready, I saw birds eating some higher up in the tree, definite sign.

Ok, so I'm going to have 50,000 lbs of pears that will rot in the next three days.

I was thinking of slicing them and freezing them in small bags. What do you guys think. I need to act fast.

Ok, I have either bosc or comice pears (can't tell) they are very juicy and sweet and it says I should cook them in sugar syrup 1-2 minutes before freezing. Oy. I'll be up all night. Oh well, it's easier than canning.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/pearsn.pdf

 

[turbo]

Some of the canes on the older plants got burned that passed week. A combination of the heat and probably a little too much sulfur added to the newly worked soil. I should have waited longer to apply the sulfur, after the new roots had set and the new canes started.

It may not be a good idea to add sulfur while the plants are in their growing stage. The rapid drop in pH might effect the uptake of nutrients. If I need to acidify, I do it in the spring before planting. Foliar feeding with a dilute soution of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) is something I do every couple of weeks, though, especially to the tomato plants.

 

[Pythagorean]

I think the pears are ready, I saw birds eaten some higher up in the tree, definite sign.

Ok, so I'm going to have 50,000 lbs of pears that will rot in the next three days.

I was thinking of slicing them and freezing them in small bags. What do you guys think. I need to act fast.

Ok, I have Bosc pears and it says I should cook them in sugar syrup 1-2 minutes before freezing. Oy. I'll be up all night. Oh well, it's easier than canning.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/pearsn.pdf

what about dehydrating them?

 

[turbo]

I think the pears are ready, I saw birds eaten some higher up in the tree, definite sign.

Ok, so I'm going to have 50,000 lbs of pears that will rot in the next three days.

I was thinking of slicing them and freezing them in small bags. What do you guys think. I need to act fast.

That's what we do with fruits and berries. Minimal processing (or none, in the case of berries) and freeze them in small portion-sized bags. The pears will probably be quite soft when you thaw them, so you will probably have to cook with them, as opposed to making fruit salad, etc. You might also want to make some pear preserves - a thick jam for bagels, English muffins, or toast.

http://sidedish.allrecipes.com/az/GrndmsPrPrsrvs.asp

 

[Pythagorean]

It may not be a good idea to add sulfur while the plants are in their growing stage. The rapid drop in pH might effect the uptake of nutrients. If I need to acidify, I do it in the spring before planting. Foliar feeding with a dilute soution of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) is something I do every couple of weeks, though, especially to the tomato plants.

With my plants, messing with the pH is a big no-no, because it drives them into sex change, and only the females produce, so males are bad. (not to mention, any males around will taint your other females).

 

[Evo]

That's what we do with fruits and berries. Minimal processing (or none, in the case of berries) and freeze them in small portion-sized bags. The pears will probably be quite soft when you thaw them, so you will probably have to cook with them, as opposed to making fruit salad, etc. You might also want to make some pear preserves - a thick jam for bagels, English muffins, or toast.

http://sidedish.allrecipes.com/az/GrndmsPrPrsrvs.asp

Yeah, freezing them will give me time to work with them later. Guess what everyone is getting for Christmas?

I'd like to see if I can swap some of my pears for vegetables. Some people here at work have been bringing in excess vegetables and I'd be glad to swap pears for tomatoes or squash.

 

[Evo]

With my plants, messing with the pH is a big no-no, because it drives them into sex change, and only the females produce, so males are bad. (not to mention, any males around will taint your other females).

What kind of perverted garden are you growing?

 

[Pythagorean]

What kind of perverted garden are you growing?

teeheehee

 

[turbo]

Yeah, freezing them will give me time to work with them later. Guess what everyone is getting for Christmas?

I'd like to see if I can swap some of my pears for vegetables. Some people here at work have been bringing in excess vegetables and I'd be glad to swap pears for tomatoes or squash.

That would be a great plan. If someone is getting inundated with tomatoes and you could get a 5-gallon pail full in exchange for a bushel of pears, you'd only have to buy a few hot peppers, onions, cilantro and some seasonings and you could can a big batch of salsa. That's a really popular Christmas gift, too. We make hot salsa with jalapenos, heavy-duty hot salsa with habaneros, etc, and green tomatoes make nice salsa, too. We also make a hot sauce that's almost entirely habanero peppers, and put that up in half-pint jars. That's the secret ingredient in my home-made pizza sauce and in my grilled-shrimp marinade.

 

[hypatia]

I made a ton of fresh pesto, cause the basil is going crazy. Froze it in ice cube trays and them popped them out into freezer baggies.
My yellow squash got hit with the lawn mower, but it may live.
I use mainly fish emulsion and manure teas to boost the garden soil.

Evo cut the pears in half, scoop out the seeds, lay them on a cookie tray and freeze them. then put them into plastic freezer bags. They just turn out better that way.

 

[turbo]

I made a ton of fresh pesto, cause the basil is going crazy. Froze it in ice cube trays and them popped them out into freezer baggies.

That sounds like a wonderful idea. Go to the freezer, grab as many cubes as you need for a meal, heat them up and serve over pasta. That is a really quick handy meal. Our first crop of basil has "gone by", but there is a second crop on the way, and I may have to try that.

There's just too much that I want to do, and with our harvested fiddleheads, wild berries, and garden vegetables, our chest freezer is nearly full. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to buy another one. My wife and I went berry-picking today and put two full gallon freezer-bags of wild blackberries (with some straggler raspberries mixed in) in the freezer. Those are mighty nice to have when winter rolls around.

 

[Astronuc]

What kind of perverted garden are you growing?

Rope plants.

Evo cut the pears in half, scoop out the seeds, lay them on a cookie tray and freeze them. then put them into plastic freezer bags. They just turn out better that way.

She may need to buy a freezer.

 

[Pythagorean]

Rope plants.