What Are the Differences Between These Vector Potential Formulas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between various vector potential formulas used in magnetostatics, specifically focusing on the derivation and implications of these formulas. Participants explore the context of different unit systems and the conditions under which certain approximations hold, as well as related concepts such as the Poynting vector.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a vector potential formula and expresses confusion about alternative forms, specifically A=(1/cr)*∫JdV and H=(1/cr) Ȧ.
  • Another participant suggests that the first equation is approximately the same as the original but in different units (Heaviside units) and notes that the term 1/r is an approximation valid for large distances from the current source.
  • A question is raised about the interpretation of the time derivative of A in relation to the electric field, with uncertainty about its connection to the magnetic field.
  • Discussion includes the Poynting vector for linearly polarized waves, highlighting the relationship between electric and magnetic fields in this context.
  • A detailed derivation of the vector potential from Maxwell's equations is provided, emphasizing gauge invariance and the conditions necessary for the validity of the formulas.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the formula A=(1/cr)*∫JdV, with participants noting it is only correct under specific conditions (r >> R, where R is the radius of the current source).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and applicability of the vector potential formulas, with no consensus reached on the correctness of the alternative forms presented. Some participants agree on the conditions under which certain approximations hold, while others remain uncertain or challenge the interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific unit systems and the assumptions regarding the distance from the current source. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps related to the derivation of the vector potential.

enerieire
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I'm having some trouble with vector potential formulas. Ihave always used this one :
A=(μ/4pi )*(J/r) dV,
where r is a distance.

I don't understand where this formulas comes from:
1) A=(1/cr)*∫JdV
where c is the speed of light;

2) H=(1/cr) Ȧ
where H is the magnetic field's vector.

Can someone please help me?
Thanks
 
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Equation 1) is approximately(read further on) the same formula as the one you use to know it is just in another system of units (your original equation is in SI units while 1) is probably in Heaviside units) is . Also the term 1/r has gone outside of the integral, an approximation that is valid for distances far away from the source of current density.

I can't help you though with equation 2) because from what I know ##\dot{A}## is the time derivative of A and that's the non conservative constituent of the electric field vector, not of the magnetic field vector.
 
And if it was a space derivative of A? Would it have any sense?

Do you know something about this form of the Poynting vector?
S= c/4pi H^2 n
 
enerieire said:
Do you know something about this form of the Poynting vector?
S= c/4pi H^2 n
This is the Poynting vector for a linearly polarized wave. In the case of linearly polarized wave you can prove that the electric field has essentially the same equation as the magnetic field but its direction is always perpendicular to that of the magnetic field. So for example if the propagation of the wave is in the z direction, and if the magnetic field vector is on the x direction ##B=B(r,t)\hat{x}## then the electric field vector is in the y-direction and ##E=cB(r,t)\hat{y}##.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for the answers!
I'm going to post another problem about Poynting's flux in a new question.
 
This is the Biot-Savart Law for the vector potential for magnetostatics. The derivation starts from the static Maxwell equations for the magnetic field (here written in Heaviside-Lorentz units)
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{B}=0, \quad \vec{\nabla} \times \vec{B}=\frac{\mu}{c} \vec{j}.$$
From the first equation we can write
$$\vec{B}=\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A},$$
but ##\vec{A}## is defined only up to a gradient field (gauge invariance for the special case of magnetostatics). This can be used to impose one additional condition on ##\vec{A}##. As we shall see in a moment, the following Coulomb-gauge condition is particularly convenient in this case:
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{A}=0.$$
Now we use the inhomogeneous equation (Ampere's Law):
$$\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{B}=\vec{\nabla} \times (\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A})=\vec{\nabla} (\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{A})-\Delta \vec{A}=\frac{\mu}{c} \vec{j}.$$
Now using the Coulomb-gauge condition this simplifies finally to
$$\Delta \vec{A}=-\frac{\mu}{c} \vec{j}.$$
This is the same equation as for the electrostatic potential, just for every Cartesian component of ##\vec{A}##. Thus we know the solution via the superposition of Coulomb fields (more formally it's the use of the Green's function of the Laplace operator):
$$\vec{A}(\vec{x})=\frac{\mu}{4 \pi c} \int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \frac{\vec{j}(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.$$
Note that this is only consistent, if
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0,$$
which is charge conservation for the static case. If this integrability condition (which follows also from the Maxwell equation (Ampere's Law)) is fulfilled, then the found solution also fulfills the Coulomb-gauge condition, as it must be for consistency.
 
vanhees71 said:
$$\vec{A}(\vec{x})=\frac{\mu}{4 \pi c} \int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \frac{\vec{j}(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.$$

Thank you,
even if my doubt was about this form of the formula:

A=(1/cr)*∫JdV
 
This formula is obviously not fully correct. It's only valid for ##r=|\vec{x}| \gg R## (where ##R## is the radius within which you have a non-vanishing ##\vec{j}##). It's the first term in the magnetostatic multipole expansion.
 
vanhees71 said:
This formula is obviously not fully correct. It's only valid for ##r=|\vec{x}| \gg R## (where ##R## is the radius within which you have a non-vanishing ##\vec{j}##). It's the first term in the magnetostatic multipole expansion.
okay, now it's clear.
Could you help me with this other connected problem?
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/flux-of-the-poyntings-vector.900480/
 

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