What Are the Time Constants and Voltages in This RC Circuit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an RC circuit problem involving time constants and voltages across a capacitor before and after a switch is opened. Participants explore the implications of the circuit's configuration and the definitions of time constants in steady-state conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the time constant before and after the switch is opened as τ = 3, based on equivalent resistance calculations.
  • Another participant questions the equivalence of the time constants before the switch is opened and after it is closed, suggesting they should differ due to changes in circuit conditions.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the voltage across the capacitor, with one suggesting that it approaches 24V when the switch is closed.
  • There is a suggestion to consider equivalent resistance and Thevenin equivalents to better understand the circuit behavior when the switch is in different positions.
  • Participants note the importance of accurately interpreting the problem statement, indicating that the phrasing may lead to misunderstandings about the circuit's conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether the time constants and voltages before and after the switch is opened are the same, with some asserting they are different and others questioning the phrasing of the problem. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct interpretation of the problem and the calculations involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the problem statement, particularly regarding the definitions of time constants and the conditions of the circuit before and after the switch is manipulated. There is also mention of the need for clarity in equivalent resistance calculations.

Kevin2341
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Homework Statement


For the circuit below, the switch has been closed for a period of time long enough for steady state conditions to have been reached.

RC1.png


a: Determine the time constant before the switch is opened
b: Determine the time constant after the switch is closed
c: Determine the voltage across the capacitor before the switch is opened
d: Determine the voltage across the capacitor after the switch is closed
e: Draw a graph of the voltage vs time, with sufficient time duration that steady state conditions are shown

Homework Equations



τ=RC
v(t) = V(0)(1-e^(-t/τ)

The Attempt at a Solution



Here is what I got

a: τ = 33.3Ω * 90mF, τ = 3
note: 33.3Ω is a result of (50*100/150), or (r1 + r2) || r3 as the circuit is flowing through the switch

b: τ = 33.3Ω * 90mF, τ = 3
note: 33.3Ω is a result of (50*100/150), or (r3 + r2) || r1 as the circuit is flowing through the capacitor (until the capacitor becomes an "open circuit")

c: v(t) = ?, not sure what to do here, or how to go about it. I have a formula, but every approach I can think of I either end up with 0, or infinity. Speaking in terms of what happens with the e function, -t/τ. Because when the switch is closed, we can think of t as infinity I think (because the voltage\current relationship will be the same for ever in ideal conditions), so you would get e^ (-infinity/3) --> 0), e^0 = 1, so 24(1-1) = 0.

d: Don't think you even need to mathematically prove that the voltage across the capacitor (as the only "exit" route, as the capacitor charges, current goes to 0 as voltage goes to its limit), so voltage across the open switch circuit would be 24V.

Could use some help here, am I on the right path with my time constants? If not, what am I doing wrong, and what can I do to find c? (probably also what can I do for d, I can't imagine a verbal explanation would satisfy the instructor)
 
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a) and b) are the same. So arer c) and d). I wonder if this is a very poor paraphrasing of the given problem ...
 
rude man said:
a) and b) are the same. So arer c) and d). I wonder if this is a very poor paraphrasing of the given problem ...

Really? I see different equivalent resistances for the two cases.
 
gneill said:
Really? I see different equivalent resistances for the two cases.

"a: Determine the time constant before the switch is opened
b: Determine the time constant after the switch is closed "

"Before the switch is opened" and "after the switch is closed" are not the same thing? Like, in both cases the switch is closed!

Same for c & d.
 
rude man said:
"a: Determine the time constant before the switch is opened
b: Determine the time constant after the switch is closed "

"Before the switch is opened" and "after the switch is closed" are not the same thing? Like, in both cases the switch is closed!

Same for c & d.

Yeah, I just noticed that myself... Either way, anyone have any advice? Fortunately this is just extra credit for the class, but either way, I would like to be able to figure out what the heck is going on
 
rude man said:
"a: Determine the time constant before the switch is opened
b: Determine the time constant after the switch is closed "

"Before the switch is opened" and "after the switch is closed" are not the same thing? Like, in both cases the switch is closed!

Same for c & d.

D'Oh! You're right! I parsed right over that and drew rational conclusions rather than right ones. Clearly the devil is in the details :smile:
 
Kevin2341 said:
Yeah, I just noticed that myself... Either way, anyone have any advice? Fortunately this is just extra credit for the class, but either way, I would like to be able to figure out what the heck is going on

Have you covered equivalent (net) resistance? How about Thevenin equivalents? In either position of the switch, what equivalent resistance does the capacitor "see" when the source is suppressed (voltage source replaced by a short circuit)?
 
Kevin2341 said:
Yeah, I just noticed that myself... Either way, anyone have any advice? Fortunately this is just extra credit for the class, but either way, I would like to be able to figure out what the heck is going on

Yes, I have some advice. Get the problem defined correctly!
 
Don't get mad at me! I copied that word for word off my assignment lol!
 
  • #10
gneill said:
Have you covered equivalent (net) resistance? How about Thevenin equivalents? In either position of the switch, what equivalent resistance does the capacitor "see" when the source is suppressed (voltage source replaced by a short circuit)?

Yes we have in both.
 
  • #11
Kevin2341 said:
Don't get mad at me! I copied that word for word off my assignment lol!

So then you need to straighten out your instructor or ... :smile:
 

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