What Determines Group Homomorphisms Between Rational Numbers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the characterization of group homomorphisms from the group of rational numbers (Q, +) to itself. Participants explore the nature of these homomorphisms, including their forms and properties, as well as related questions about surjective homomorphisms and subgroup structures within the rational numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that all group homomorphisms from (Q, +) to (Q, +) can be expressed in the form \( f_a : x \to ax \) for some rational number \( a \).
  • One participant questions the reasoning behind the step \( f(n) = f(0+n) = n + f(0) \), suggesting a misunderstanding of the properties of homomorphisms.
  • Another participant explains that the addition-preserving property of homomorphisms leads to the conclusion \( f(n \cdot 1) = nf(1) \).
  • There is a discussion about whether there exists a surjective homomorphism from \( \mathbb{Q} \) to \( \mathbb{Z}_2 \), with one participant arguing that such a homomorphism cannot exist based on the first isomorphism theorem.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of viewing \( \mathbb{Q} \) as a vector space over \( \mathbb{Z} \) versus over \( \mathbb{Q} \), and the concept of \( \mathbb{Z} \)-modules is introduced.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of homomorphisms and the existence of certain subgroup structures. While some points are clarified, there remains no consensus on all aspects of the discussion, particularly regarding the interpretation of scalar multiplication and the properties of homomorphisms.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about the properties of homomorphisms and the structure of groups, which may not be universally accepted or fully resolved within the conversation.

Fermat1
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1)Describe all group homomorphisms from (Q,+) to (Q,+) where Q is the set of rationals.

Googling this, I came across the fact that for integer $n$, $f(n)=f(0+n)=n+f(0)$

But I don't understand the third step. To my mind $f(0+n)=f(0)+f(n)=f(n)$

2)Is there a surjective homomorphism from $Q$ to $Z_{2}$?

Is there a subgroup of $Q$ of index 2?

Thanks
 
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Fermat said:
1)Describe all group homomorphisms from (Q,+) to (Q,+) where Q is the set of rationals.

Googling this, I came across the fact that for integer $n$, $f(n)=f(0+n)=n+f(0)$

But I don't understand the third step. To my mind $f(0+n)=f(0)+f(n)=f(n)$

2)Is there a surjective homomorphism from $Q$ to $Z_{2}$?

Is there a subgroup of $Q$ of index 2?

Thanks

Hi Fermat,

You're right to find an error in $f(n) = f(0+n) = n+f(0)$. It turns out that the group homomorphisms are of the form $f_a : x \to ax$ for all $a \in \Bbb Q$. To show this, set $a = f(1)$. Note that $a$ can be any rational number. For all $n \in \Bbb N$, $f(n) = nf(1) = na$. Since $f(0) = 0$, $f(-x) = -f(x)$ for all $x\in \Bbb Q$. Therefore $f(-n) = -f(n) = -na$ for all $n\in \Bbb N$. Thus $f(n) = na$ for all $n\in \Bbb Z$. Given $m\in \Bbb N$, $f(1) = f(m \cdot \tfrac{1}{m}) = mf(\tfrac{1}{m})$. Thus $f(\tfrac{1}{m}) = \frac{1}{m}f(1)$ whenever $m\in \Bbb N$. Consequently, for all $n\in \Bbb Z$ and $m\in \Bbb N$, $f(\tfrac{n}{m}) = nf(\tfrac{1}{m}) = \frac{n}{m}a$. Hence, $f(x) = ax$ for all $x\in \Bbb Q$.

The answer to the second question is no. Having a surjective homomorphism $f$ of $\Bbb Q$ onto $\Bbb Z_2$ implies (by the first isomorphism theorem) that $\Bbb Q/N$ has order 2, where $N = \text{ker}f$. Since $2\overline{x} = \overline{0}$ in $\Bbb Q/N$, $2x \in N$ for all $x \in \Bbb Q$. Thus $2\Bbb Q \subseteq N$. Since $2\Bbb Q = \Bbb Q$, $\Bbb Q \subseteq N$. Therefore $\Bbb Q = N$ and $\Bbb Q/N$ has one element, a contradiction. Note that this also shows that $\Bbb Q$ does not have a subgroup of index 2.
 
Euge said:
Hi Fermat,

You're right to find an error in $f(n) = f(0+n) = n+f(0)$. It turns out that the group homomorphisms are of the form $f_a : x \to ax$ for all $a \in \Bbb Q$. To show this, set $a = f(1)$. Note that $a$ can be any rational number. For all $n \in \Bbb N$, $f(n) = nf(1) = na$. Since $f(0) = 0$, $f(-x) = -f(x)$ for all $x\in \Bbb Q$. Therefore $f(-n) = -f(n) = -na$ for all $n\in \Bbb N$. Thus $f(n) = na$ for all $n\in \Bbb Z$. Given $m\in \Bbb N$, $f(1) = f(m \cdot \tfrac{1}{m}) = mf(\tfrac{1}{m})$. Thus $f(\tfrac{1}{m}) = \frac{1}{m}f(1)$ whenever $m\in \Bbb N$. Consequently, for all $n\in \Bbb Z$ and $m\in \Bbb N$, $f(\tfrac{n}{m}) = nf(\tfrac{1}{m}) = \frac{n}{m}a$. Hence, $f(x) = ax$ for all $x\in \Bbb Q$.

The answer to the second question is no. Having a surjective homomorphism $f$ of $\Bbb Q$ onto $\Bbb Z_2$ implies (by the first isomorphism theorem) that $\Bbb Q/N$ has order 2, where $N = \text{ker}f$. Since $2\overline{x} = \overline{0}$ in $\Bbb Q/N$, $2x \in N$ for all $x \in \Bbb Q$. Thus $2\Bbb Q \subseteq N$. Since $2\Bbb Q = \Bbb Q$, $\Bbb Q \subseteq N$. Therefore $\Bbb Q = N$ and $\Bbb Q/N$ has one element, a contradiction. Note that this also shows that $\Bbb Q$ does not have a subgroup of index 2.

Thanks but I don't understand $f(n.1)=nf(1)$ Are you viewing it is a vector space over Z? If so you couldn't you view it as a vector space over Q?
 
solved it. Thanks
 
Fermat said:
Thanks but I don't understand $f(n.1)=nf(1)$ Are you viewing it is a vector space over Z? If so you couldn't you view it as a vector space over Q?

Follows from the addition-preserving property of homomorphisms

$$f(n \cdot 1) = f(1 + 1 + 1 + \cdots + 1) = f(1) + f(1) + f(1) + \cdot + f(1) = nf(1)$$
 
Fermat said:
Thanks but I don't understand $f(n.1)=nf(1)$ Are you viewing it is a vector space over Z? If so you couldn't you view it as a vector space over Q?

Sort of. The correct term is "$\Bbb Z$-module". Modules are "like" vector spaces, but the "scalars" are elements of a RING, not a field.

Any abelian group $G$ comes with a natural action ("scalar multiplication") of the integers on it:

For $k \in \Bbb Z$ and $g \in G$, we set:

$k\cdot g = g^k$.

If the "group operation" is written as addition, then $g^k$ is usually written $kg$, meaning:

$g + g +\cdots + g$ ($k$ times).

Here's the thing: any group homomorphism $f: \Bbb Q \to \Bbb Q$, is completely determined by $f(1)$. Euge's post shows why this is so. Using the $\Bbb Z$-module structure allows us to "sneak in multiplication".
 

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