What Do American Girls Look for in a Man?

[klusener]

That is right, that's right, you heard me, this is the 100th post on this topic and I claim it. ;)

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

Earth Girls Are Easy

 

[ron damon]

This may be a vague question, but what do american girls like in a man, do you
have any taboos, customs, are there any subjects that should be avoided?

yeah, loose the brain.

 

[honestrosewater]

On the subject of olives...
I loved other elements of Mediterranean diets but couldn't stand the taste of olives, which play a huge role. So I tried to acquire a taste for olives. It's worked somewhat with black olives. I love some but don't really know much about olives and have chosen some really awful ones. The green olives I've tried were rubbery and far too salty. So I need an olive education. What should I look for when choosing olives? Which kinds should I try? Anyone know?

 

[Moonbear]

On the subject of olives...
I loved other elements of Mediterranean diets but couldn't stand the taste of olives, which play a huge role. So I tried to acquire a taste for olives. It's worked somewhat with black olives. I love some but don't really know much about olives and have chosen some really awful ones. The green olives I've tried were rubbery and far too salty. So I need an olive education. What should I look for when choosing olives? Which kinds should I try? Anyone know?

Heh heh, yeah, I like the green olives because they are salty. It's like craving a pickle or potato chip, it's all about the salt. So, if you're not after salt, then skip the green ones. To me, the black ones taste like mushy mud. I haven't tried vast varieties of olives, but my favorites so far are Kalamata olives (they look sort of pinkish). I usually find them packed in olive oil, so they don't have that salty brine (uh, yeah, I guess that's redundant) like the green ones have, and it supplements the flavor. They're the ones they put in Greek salads.

I don't like olives in cooked foods at all. To me, they are a snack food, not an ingredient, and can easily overtake a food if they are cooked into it (a very few olives in a dish can add an interesting flavor, but usually people include way too many and all you can taste are the olives).

 

[Zantra]

First of all, my resume.. here's what I know about women, and I can tell you I've dated a lot...













And that's what I know.. any questions? moving right along, I can tell you that women don't know what women want most times, so if you do find out, PM me right away. Based on my experience, women want different things depending on the woman, but a good sense of humor, and someone to listen to them-of course you can't be buttfaced ugly(fugly) or weigh 450 pounds, but women are a lot more flexible than guys about this stuff. They weigh the whole package. Of course mileage may vary, and you'd be amazed what you can accomplish with a wad of cash for the right girl But different strokes for different folks.

Oh even though I'm a guy, I have a thing for the brit accent (proper, not cockney). And I work with a lot of britts so I've met quite a few.

Cheers...

 

[hypnagogue]

Oh even though I'm a guy, I have a thing for the brit accent (proper, not cockney). And I work with a lot of britts so I've met quite a few.

Myself, I really go for the cockney accent. "Awey'll sweep yoah chimney, awey will awey will!"

 

[honestrosewater]

Heh heh, yeah, I like the green olives because they are salty. It's like craving a pickle or potato chip, it's all about the salt. So, if you're not after salt, then skip the green ones. To me, the black ones taste like mushy mud. I haven't tried vast varieties of olives, but my favorites so far are Kalamata olives (they look sort of pinkish). I usually find them packed in olive oil, so they don't have that salty brine (uh, yeah, I guess that's redundant) like the green ones have, and it supplements the flavor. They're the ones they put in Greek salads.

Kalamata, check. Fun to say too. I've had the mushy mud and dry rubber problems. I've also tasted rancid olive oil- not something I recommend.

I don't like olives in cooked foods at all. To me, they are a snack food, not an ingredient, and can easily overtake a food if they are cooked into it (a very few olives in a dish can add an interesting flavor, but usually people include way too many and all you can taste are the olives).

Yes, I have ruined a few dishes with olives, either too many or clashing flavors. I love olives in salads and sandwiches or with cheese and fresh spinach on crackers. Yummy.

 

[dextercioby]

I hate olives. They make me want to So, please, stooooooooooopppppppp!

Daniel.

 

[honestrosewater]

I hate olives. They make me want to So, please, stooooooooooopppppppp!

Daniel.

Oh? What kind of olives? Any of these?
http://www.ilida.gr/images/green_olives.gif http://www.ilida.gr/images/amfisis_black-olives.gif
http://www.ilida.gr/images/fair-olives.gif http://www.compagniadellepuglie.com/images/olive-acqua.jpg

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

mmm..., olives

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I can tell you that women don't know what women want most times, so if you do find out, PM me right away.

Shoes.

Why don't we try flipping the question. It might prove how absurd this must sound to girls/women/other-non-males. What do men want? I think the ladies should be allowed to answer first.

 

[Moonbear]

Why don't we try flipping the question. It might prove how absurd this must sound to girls/women/other-non-males. What do men want? I think the ladies should be allowed to answer first.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Except men are really simple, they just want sex, right? Oh, and exclusive access to the TV remote. When they get restless, we toss them a new, shiny toy that lights up, blinks, rotates, goes fast, makes sounds, or otherwise requires batteries or other power source (hey, wait, that works for women too... ).

 

[Moonbear]

I hate olives. They make me want to So, please, stooooooooooopppppppp!

Daniel.

I don't know what types of olives you've had. If it's the rubbery green ones or muddy black ones that honestrosewater is talking about, I fully understand. But, there are so many different types of olives, and they really do taste different from each other, plus, how they are packed/stored matters too. Oh, I've never even had the luxury of getting olives from a deli bin, mine have always been in jars where I know they are additionally processed to get them into the jars and get the jars sealed, so they're probably even better if I bought them in bulk at the deli counter (we just don't have good deli counters here; at least not if I don't want to drive a half hour to get to the international market).

 

[Lisa!]

American girls and olive?!
(I have to admit I dislike olives ,too)

 

[dextercioby]

Well,Lisa,i can only hope they choke on them olives .

Daniel.

 

[pattylou]

Forgive us (that's me, wolram, and 95% of the English speaking population) for using the term too loosely for you. Given the wide usage from both sides of the gender divide ("I'm going out with my girlfriends"), we misguided young men did not guess how much we were offending you.

"Offended" is too strong.

Someone was seeking advice on what American women want. Did you want feedback from women, or not?

Another important trait is actually *listening* to what the women in your life are saying.

patty

p.s. when I was in my early 20s I didn't care about girls v women one way or the other. So it's entirely possible that the females in your life don't care.

 

[pattylou]

Shoes.

Why don't we try flipping the question. It might prove how absurd this must sound to girls/women/other-non-males. What do men want? I think the ladies should be allowed to answer first.

Okay. Men want women with a sense of humor. Note: this means someone who will laugh at their jokes, not someone who tells jokes.

Men want their egos stroked, but not obviously. Something like "Oh honey, you shouldn't have to do that, you've been working hard today so sit back and let me get that" does wonders. Or "A man like you shouldn't have to..." sprinkled into the conversation a few times a month.

Sex: Absolutely.

Good looks and good hygiene. Preferably natural good looks.

Someone who can follow an intelligent conversation or look sexy while taking a motor apart or programming in a new computer language is a plus too.

What did I miss? No nagging, no talking too much, no snoring or bad breath or anything like that. No one that tries to drag them to chick flicks.

(many, not all, of these traits are desirable regardless of which sex you are, and which sex you are looking for.)

Kudos on changing 'girls' to something broader, hombre'. You're clearly intelligent and responsive to the wishes of those around you.

-Patty

p.s. in case you're wondering, yes that last bit was an intentional ego stroke for you.

Edit: But it was sincere. I was trying to illustrate the point. There is nothing wrong with compliments, they should be sincere, and women (or girls) like them as well as men. Being kind requires intentionality (and effort) at times, for any of us.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Except men are really simple, they just want sex, right?

Yes. But preferably with someone we have a special da-de-da blah blah blah.

Oh, and exclusive access to the TV remote.

That confirms an American stereotype. I don't watch television and none of my male friends do. In the UK, it's the women who seem to be addicted to the soap-infested television. They're definitely in charge... until a match is on that is.

"Offended" is too strong.

That was one for the more lunar of our large mammals.

Someone was seeking advice on what American women want. Did you want feedback from women, or not?

It's not my thread. I don't really care. But yeah, I think that was my point. Having a go at the blokes for the lack of female input is... weird.

p.s. when I was in my early 20s I didn't care about girls v women one way or the other. So it's entirely possible that the females in your life don't care.

Is that addressed to me? FemaleS?!? Plural?!? You are either very wise or very presumptious. Either way, you may continue to spread that particular rumour all you like.

Okay. Men want women with a sense of humor. Note: this means someone who will laugh at their jokes, not someone who tells jokes.

I don't know. Sense of humour, definitely. But I don't really do jokes. Me and mine have a pretty witty rapport that can get hysterical. That's the kind of sense of humour I'm after - improvisational! A performing arts degree really helpful.

Men want their egos stroked, but not obviously. Something like "Oh honey, you shouldn't have to do that, you've been working hard today so sit back and let me get that" does wonders. Or "A man like you shouldn't have to..." sprinkled into the conversation a few times a month.

To an extent, though certainly not to the fishing-for-compliment levels that some women go to. Do we come across as requiring that much attention? I think I'm the opposite. I get kinda snappy when someone is buzzing around me. I like some 'me' time. A lot of it.

Sex: Absolutely.

No woman has offered this criterion yet have they. Decades of women's fashion and gossip magazines just can't change the fact that there's only one gender that sees the true potential in recreational shagging.

Good looks and good hygiene. Preferably natural good looks.

You've hurt Zooby, now you're dissing his zoo*****es.

Someone who can follow an intelligent conversation or look sexy while taking a motor apart or programming in a new computer language is a plus too.

Well... yes. Basically a cross between Sarah Beany and Carol Vordermann is what we're after.

No nagging

Damn right, so stop with all there "we're women, not girls" bull, alright?!?

no talking too much

Or eating too much, smoking too much, drinking too much, sleeping too much, watching too much TV... in fact, nothing that ends in 'too much', otherwise it wouldn't be too much, would it!

no snoring

Snoring probably isn't an issue. We're not known to be light sleepers.

No one that tries to drag them to chick flicks.

Chick flicks not so bad, just no Richard Curtis movies... ever... PLEASE!

Kudos on changing 'girls' to something broader, hombre'. You're clearly intelligent and responsive to the wishes of those around you.

Yeah, that's me: kind, considerate, responsive, ironic...

p.s. in case you're wondering, yes that last bit was an intentional ego stroke for you.

I've seen a doctor. He told me no matter how much I or anyone else strokes it, it ain't getting any bigger. Fill yer boots, but you're wasting your time.

 

[brewnog]

Well... yes. Basically a cross between Sarah Beany and Carol Vordermann is what we're after.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo![/size]


Well, ok, I can see where you're going with Beeny. I'd love to climb her property ladder! Heh heh heh![/size]


Anyway, if I was a girl, I'd probably want a cross between Michael Parkinson, and Barry Chuckle. But I'm not, so I'll stick with my obsession-of-the-week, Jo Whiley.

 

[Moonbear]

Yes. But preferably with someone we have a special da-de-da blah blah blah.

That confirms an American stereotype. I don't watch television and none of my male friends do. In the UK, it's the women who seem to be addicted to the soap-infested television. They're definitely in charge... until a match is on that is.

I hope you realized I was joking with my answer. I think Patty gave a somewhat more serious answer, but mine was entirely joke, intended to highlight your point of how silly some things sounded as the men around here were trying to answer what women want. I can only hope some of them were joking too and forgot the smilies.

Though...hmm...maybe I need to go after the European men! I can't stand TV addicts, though I was talking with a French friend of mine and he commented how he finds it incredibly distracting to walk into a place like a bar with TVs around, because he's so unaccustomed to having TVs on when having a conversation that he can't help but watch (this was after I picked on him for staring at a TV monitor in the hospital cafeteria that has nothing but announcements on it during most of lunch).

 

[The_Professional]

This may be a vague question, but what do american girls like in a man, do you
have any taboos, customs, are there any subjects that should be avoided?

A self-assured guy with a sense of humor. Which is pretty much what every girl of every race is looking for.

 

[Astronuc]

A self-assured guy with a sense of humor.

Who is also kind, considerate, thoughtful, honest, trustworthy, emphatetic, compassionate, passionate at the right time, interesting.

 

[Astronuc]

Okay. Men want women with a sense of humor. Note: this means someone who will laugh at their jokes, not someone who tells jokes.

Men want their egos stroked, but not obviously. Something like "Oh honey, you shouldn't have to do that, you've been working hard today so sit back and let me get that" does wonders. Or "A man like you shouldn't have to..." sprinkled into the conversation a few times a month.

Sex: Absolutely.

Good looks and good hygiene. Preferably natural good looks.

Someone who can follow an intelligent conversation or look sexy while taking a motor apart or programming in a new computer language is a plus too.

What did I miss? No nagging, no talking too much, no snoring or bad breath or anything like that. No one that tries to drag them to chick flicks.

Seems rather cynical or did someone forget

(many, not all, of these traits are desirable regardless of which sex you are, and which sex you are looking for.)

Interesting - so the above applies to either sex?

Actually, each person, man or woman has different needs, wants, desires, based on their own unique experience. However, there are common traits like honesty, integrity, consideration, etc, that most if not all people want in the other party of a bilateral relationship. At least that has been my experience.

BTW - High PattyLou. Welcome to PF.

 

[Moonbear]

However, there are common traits like honesty, integrity, consideration, etc,

I think those are the top three, and in that order too. Dishonesty is an absolute deal breaker for me, and it's hard to separate honesty from integrity. They tend to go hand-in-hand. I would rather have a guy say something like, "I don't know how to answer that without hurting your feelings, so I'm not going to answer your question," or, "That's something I don't want to share," than to lie about something. And, yep, consideration is really important. If we have a date planned and at the last minute he decides to call it off to go out with his buddies, he better not expect to reschedule (unless it's a really unusual situation, like someone suddenly shows up from out of town who he never gets to see and they are only around one night and want to do something he knows I wouldn't want to do...then I'd be considerate about it and figure I can see him any time, this other person only has one night).

 

[Astronuc]

If we have a date planned and at the last minute he decides to call it off to go out with his buddies, he better not expect to reschedule (unless it's a really unusual situation, like someone suddenly shows up from out of town who he never gets to see and they are only around one night and want to do something he knows I wouldn't want to do...then I'd be considerate about it and figure I can see him any time, this other person only has one night).

I suppose there are guys (boys ) who would do that.

When I was dating, it would never have occurred to me to break a date to go out with the guys , not even a friend from out of town who I never get to see.

 

[Moonbear]

I suppose there are guys (boys ) who would do that.

When I was dating, it would never have occurred to me to break a date to go out with the guys , not even a friend from out of town who I never get to see.

It's never happened to me personally, but a few of my friends have had dates like that...the guy calls up and cancels last minute because something else came up and he wants to reschedule. Needless to say, those didn't wind up being long-lasting relationships.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Well, ok, I can see where you're going with Beeny. I'd love to climb her property ladder! Heh heh heh!

Yep, she can talk me into getting an extension any day.

 

[pattylou]

Seems rather cynical

Nope, I didn't forget the grin. I think the things I said are true. And I don't think I'm cynical on relationships at all. Politics, yes. Relationships, no. I certainly don't want to be nagged, I like sincere compliments, etc etc.

Interesting - so the above applies to either sex?

Most of the above, I think, does. And it applies to gay or straight sexual orientation.

Actually, each person, man or woman has different needs, wants, desires, based on their own unique experience. However, there are common traits like honesty, integrity, consideration, etc, that most if not all people want in the other party of a bilateral relationship. At least that has been my experience.

BTW - High PattyLou. Welcome to PF.

I don't see that you and I are making different characterizations at all wrt to relationships. Consideration, for example, keeps one person from nagging another, and leads one person to say kind things towards another. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[Astronuc]

Men want women with a sense of humor. Note: this means someone who will laugh at their jokes, not someone who tells jokes.

Some do, but it was never a major point for me. I am pretty serious about most things - I'm am poor at jokes. On the other hand, I like Monty Python, Rowan Adkinson, Peter Sellers, and a number of other comedies, but my wife does not care for that. No big deal.

Men want their egos stroked, but not obviously. Something like "Oh honey, you shouldn't have to do that, you've been working hard today so sit back and let me get that" does wonders. Or "A man like you shouldn't have to..." sprinkled into the conversation a few times a month.

Some (I don't know if most) do. I don't have an ego - so that was never an issue.

Sex: Absolutely.

It seems mutual. Most of my previous relationships with women (before I got married) were initiated by the women, and several of them were interested in sex (probably more than I was at the time).

Good looks and good hygiene. Preferably natural good looks.

Both men and women seek a 'good looking' partner, and certainly one who is healthy, especially if one (and the couple) is planning to have children.

Someone who can follow an intelligent conversation or look sexy while taking a motor apart or programming in a new computer language is a plus too.

Somewhat of an exaggeration, but I prefer an intelligent partner, but not one necessarily who can tear apart a motor or program in a new langauage.

What did I miss? No nagging, no talking too much, no snoring or bad breath or anything like that. No one that tries to drag them to chick flicks.

Of course no nagging. Nobody wants that.
I agree with El Hombre Invisible, I don't care for too much of anything.

As for bad breath, everyone gets bad breath now and then, especially if one has sinus problems. Not a big deal to me.

My wife snores, but I only hear it if I am awake. No big deal.

I enjoy some 'chick flicks'. On the other hand, I don't want to dragged anywhere by anyone - friend, family member, or wife.

 

[theCandyman]

It seems mutual. Most of my previous relationships with women (before I got married) were initiated by the women, and several of them were interested in sex (probably more than I was at the time).

It must be the beard, Astronuc.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The one thing I have found that is number one for most women is confidence. Some women think it's cute when a guy is shy, fortunate for me, but still prefer that they have confidence. Some may go for a man because they want to build up his confidence and some may prefer a man without much confidence because they wish to dominate their partner.
Personally I lack confidence in myself when it comes to women in particular. There seem to be plenty of women that don't mind that though.

For most men I think what they find important is a lack of what are generally construed as the "typical" female head games.

On a side note, I tend to use the word girls. Mainly because the majority of females I come in contact with are girls. Depending on the context I use the word woman (such as above) but I generally won't refer to a female as a woman unless I have a personal respect for her or she is older than me. I'll still call an older woman a girl though if I feel it's more fitting. I use the word Lady similarly. I used to call my last g/f milady. She was irritated by it because she thought I was calling her MY lady, like I was being possesive. Even after I explained to her the difference I don't think she really cared.

 

[Moonbear]

On a side note, I tend to use the word girls. Mainly because the majority of females I come in contact with are girls. Depending on the context I use the word woman (such as above) but I generally won't refer to a female as a woman unless I have a personal respect for her or she is older than me.

That's my issue about using the term "girl." It's a diminutive and shows a lack of respect. If you're using the term to emphasize someone's lack of maturity, then it makes your point (just like I will use the term "boys" to refer to adult men who are immature in their behaviors and act like boys), but it will be interpreted that way if you're not intending to use it that way either.

As for confidence, I do like men who are confident (but not so much so that they act arrogant), but I don't think that's a universal trait women look for. Some seem especially drawn to the shy ones.

 

[Emieno]

I now realize you are not only a biology guru but also a food expert.

 

[pattylou]

Astronuc: I really don't see a disagreement here beyond different choices in wording. Also, of course individuals do not all fall out of the same mold. Thank you for clarifying your position... you sound like a gem.

El Hombre: I took your comment about recreational shagging to heart. Mike wishes to thank you.

 

[Evo]

For me a great sense of humor is very important. I can't be in a relationship where there is no humor. He's got to be able to make me laugh. Intelligence is a must. To me there is a difference between confidence and being shy with women. The latter hopefully will be quickly overcome once the guy knows I'm interested, but he has to have confidence in himself. If a guy doesn't respect himself, how can I respect him?

 

[Astronuc]

I like the point that was made by Hawkeye to HotLips on M*A*S*H, when they were lost, and he said "Maybe you and I are just too choosy. We both waiting for a custom fit in an off-the-rack world."

The bottom line is that no one is perfect. Everyone has flaws.

The best relationships are where both partners accept the other as is, with the flaws or imperfections, and work together anyway - for better and for worse.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

El Hombre: I took your comment about recreational shagging to heart. Mike wishes to thank you.

Tell him it was his pleasure.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Hello,
A little bit on that last note, and a little bit to do with transatlantic custom discrepencies - an American friend assures me there is quite a difference in one respect, a custom prevelent in America and not so in England, that left her a little surprised originally, but regardless, happily married to a Pom for many years. This is information I'm not personally privy to(with regard to these two counties), nor am I aware of any statistics, nor if it is age related, nor do I have an opinion as to whether it is mutilation or hygenically sound and better looking! Anyway, forewarned may be forearmed!

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Hello,
A little bit on that last note, and a little bit to do with transatlantic custom discrepencies - an American friend assures me there is quite a difference in one respect, a custom prevelent in America and not so in England, that left her a little surprised originally, but regardless, happily married to a Pom for many years. This is information I'm not personally privy to(with regard to these two counties), nor am I aware of any statistics, nor if it is age related, nor do I have an opinion as to whether it is mutilation or hygenically sound and better looking! Anyway, forewarned may be forearmed!

If I catch your drift correctly, I would like to avoid this topic. My eyes are already glazing over with unfallen tears. It's just... AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

 

[fuzzyfelt]

sorry, couldn't bring myself to write it in exact words, either!

 

[bor0000]

The more i read these topics the more i realize that there is a greater difference between professions(class) than between cultures(usa vs england). For example on this forum, you are all leading logical and genial discussions, while on a premed forum most people are rude and judgemental and not nice.
I think the classiest girls are the ph.d. students. may argue that physics ph.d's are better than english ph.d's and vice versa, but can definitely say they're all better than premeds.

 

[Moonbear]

The more i read these topics the more i realize that there is a greater difference between professions(class) than between cultures(usa vs england). For example on this forum, you are all leading logical and genial discussions, while on a premed forum most people are rude and judgemental and not nice.
I think the classiest girls are the ph.d. students. may argue that physics ph.d's are better than english ph.d's and vice versa, but can definitely say they're all better than premeds.

You know, once upon a time, I was pre-med. Think you might want to revise that statement? Any attempt at lumping people into categories is going to fall short of reality.

 

[Astronuc]

Hello,
A little bit on that last note, and a little bit to do with transatlantic custom discrepencies - an American friend assures me there is quite a difference in one respect, a custom prevelent in America and not so in England, that left her a little surprised originally, but regardless, happily married to a Pom for many years. This is information I'm not personally privy to(with regard to these two counties), nor am I aware of any statistics, nor if it is age related, nor do I have an opinion as to whether it is mutilation or hygenically sound and better looking! Anyway, forewarned may be forearmed!

It would seem that this is a reference to piercing of certain body parts, beyond that of pierced ears.

Besides ears, many younger folk seem to be into piecing tounges, nose, eye brows, and certain intimate parts. Personally, I consider this mutilation, and it does seem to raise issues of hygiene.

This mostly seems be a phenomenon for those in the early 40's down to teenagers, having evolved over the last 20-25 years from the Punk culture.

 

[russ_watters]

That's my issue about using the term "girl." It's a diminutive and shows a lack of respect. If you're using the term to emphasize someone's lack of maturity, then it makes your point (just like I will use the term "boys" to refer to adult men who are immature in their behaviors and act like boys), but it will be interpreted that way if you're not intending to use it that way either.

My mother calls her friends "the girls" and I refer to some of my female friends that way too. Its not meant to convey lack of maturity, but youthfulness. It happens with guys as well, but not as often - as maturity is generally more of an issue with guys, they want to be called "men" at an earlier age.

 

[Moonbear]

My mother calls her friends "the girls" and I refer to some of my female friends that way too. Its not meant to convey lack of maturity, but youthfulness.

If you are close enough friends with someone, generally you know them well enough to know what you can or can't call them, and since a certain level of mutual respect is already established, can even tease each other with terms that might otherwise seem offensive.

But, would you use such a term in an office setting, or when referring to a woman you only know as a casual acquaintance or in a business environment? The setting it really is noticeable is in an office environment. You'll hear men refer to the women in management but the girls in the secretarial pool.

It would seem that this is a reference to piercing of certain body parts, beyond that of pierced ears.

That's not what I thought he meant. I was pretty sure he was referring to circumcision. But, it was somewhat ambiguous.

 

[Moonbear]

It happens with guys as well, but not as often - as maturity is generally more of an issue with guys, they want to be called "men" at an earlier age.

You added this after I quoted your post!

So, why do you think it wouldn't it be just as much of an issue for women? And, when we just ask for the same level of respect in terminology that men ask for themselves, why do men get upset or think we're being too demanding?

 

[russ_watters]

You added this after I quoted your post!

Yes, I do that...

If you are close enough friends with someone, generally you know them well enough to know what you can or can't call them, and since a certain level of mutual respect is already established, can even tease each other with terms that might otherwise seem offensive.

But that's just it - since it isn't meant to be offensive, so its not a matter of knowing someone well enough to tease them, but simply a matter of understanding what is meant when it is said.

But, would you use such a term in an office setting, or when referring to a woman you only know as a casual acquaintance or in a business environment? The setting it really is noticeable is in an office environment. You'll hear men refer to the women in management but the girls in the secretarial pool.

Well, the difference there is a causal vs formal address - its still not about teasing. And this isn't an office, this is an internet forum - socially, about the same as a bar.

So, why do you think it wouldn't it be just as much of an issue for women?

Because men are chauvanistic, insecure, and immature socially. Women like to present the fun-loving aura socially but seldom come off as immature while doing it: You don't think "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" was about teenagers, do you? Or Tom Petty's song, "American Girl"? And the title of this thread too...

And, when we just ask for the same level of respect in terminology that men ask for themselves, why do men get upset or think we're being too demanding?

This has never been an issue for me - in either direction. This isn't a business meeting where protocol is important, this is a casual social situation - if you want to refer to me as "boy", "buddy", "dude", or even "babe", as long as I can read from your tone that the intent is not condescending, its simply not an issue to me.

 

[pattylou]

I don't think this is a "make or break issue" in a relationship. That being said,

But that's just it - since it isn't meant to be offensive, so its not a matter of knowing someone well enough to tease them, but simply a matter of understanding what is meant when it is said.

You are putting the onus on the female, to change her understanding of "what is meant." Moonbear and I have simply communicated our understanding as it presently stands. I think this preference (to be referred to as a woman) is more common with age and education. You can see our feedback as informative, or not, but my personal preference is unlikely to change simply because some men think I shouldn't be offended or that I should change how I "hear" the term "girl."

Well, the difference there is a causal vs formal address - its still not about teasing. And this isn't an office, this is an internet forum - socially, about the same as a bar.

Let's say you approach me in a bar. Your friend walks up and says he's taking off, and do you need a ride? You respond that you've just met a girl, and could he hang around for ten more minutes? If this happened, I would silently take (negative) note of your use of the word 'girl.' If I thought you were a great guy anyway, it wouldn't matter. If I had my doubts, it could be just enough to convince me that you're probably not for me.

You may find this tip useful. (Or you may just think I'm a weirdo on the internet and happily continue to meet "girls" in bars. If it works for you, more power to you.)

Because men are chauvanistic, insecure, and immature socially. Women like to present the fun-loving aura socially but seldom come off as immature while doing it: You don't think "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" was about teenagers, do you? Or Tom Petty's song, "American Girl"? And the title of this thread too...

Don't understand all of that... but the title of the thread was what got me to read it.

This has never been an issue for me - in either direction. This isn't a business meeting where protocol is important, this is a casual social situation - if you want to refer to me as "boy", "buddy", "dude", or even "babe", as long as I can read from your tone that the intent is not condescending, its simply not an issue to me.

Surely you recognize "boy" as carrying a different connotation than "buddy?"

"You are a good buddy." vs.

"You are a good boy."

Or...

"You're a babe." vs.

"You're a baby."

You get the intent of a sentence from the words.

Bottom line, trust your instincts. And when in doubt, go with more respect than you might otherwise.

 

[Evo]

Well, at my age, I don't mind being called a girl. Just don't call me "ma'am".