What does it mean to say a battery is however many volts?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the meaning of a battery's voltage rating, specifically what it signifies in terms of electric potential energy and charge movement. Participants explore the implications of a battery labeled as 9 volts, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of voltage in circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a battery rated at 9V indicates that moving a 1C charge from the negative to the positive terminal results in an increase of 9J in potential energy.
  • Others argue that the battery defines the potential difference between its terminals without reference to a point at infinity, suggesting a different understanding of potential energy in this context.
  • A participant questions whether the analogy of voltage as 'height' is appropriate, and others affirm that it works.
  • Some participants discuss the necessity of external work to move a charge from the negative to the positive terminal, emphasizing that potential energy is gained through work done on the charge.
  • A later reply suggests that the description of potential energy increase may be more relevant to charging a battery rather than using it, which prompts further agreement from others.
  • One participant clarifies that while potential energy is gained by the charge, it does not do work until it is released, which leads to work being done in the circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between voltage, potential energy, and the movement of charge, but there are competing views regarding the interpretation of these concepts, particularly in the context of charging versus using a battery.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of electric potential and the role of external work in moving charges are not fully resolved, and the discussion includes varying interpretations of voltage and potential energy in different scenarios.

kostoglotov
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For instance, at a point 1 meter from a 1 nC charge the voltage (potential difference) from the formula V = Kq/r, is given as 9 volts, 9 J/C.

So what does it then mean to call a battery 9V, 9 J/C? Is this a battery capable of taking a 1 C charge from infinity and pushing to within 1m of a 1 nC source of some electric field?
 
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It means that if you move a 1C charge from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, its potential energy increases by 9J. The battery already defines the potential difference of 9V between its positive and negative terminals, so we don't use the point at infinity as the zero potential reference.
 
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Chandra Prayaga said:
It means that if you move a 1C charge from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, its potential energy increases by 9J. The battery already defines the potential difference of 9V between its positive and negative terminals, so we don't use the point at infinity as the zero potential reference.

And so a circuit that connects those terminals is a pathway across which a charge could gain PE by moving from the negative terminal to the positive terminal? And if that circuit is more than just a (theoretically) resistance-less why, then as that charge is picking up PE, some of that PE will be doing work in the circuit before it reaches the other terminal?
 
Chandra Prayaga said:
It means that if you move a 1C charge from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, its potential energy increases by 9J. The battery already defines the potential difference of 9V between its positive and negative terminals, so we don't use the point at infinity as the zero potential reference.

So could we think of voltage as 'height'?
 
kostoglotov said:
And so a circuit that connects those terminals is a pathway across which a charge could gain PE by moving from the negative terminal to the positive terminal?
A [positive] charge will not spontaneously move from negative terminal to positive terminal. It takes work to move it in that direction. Its gain in PE corresponds to the external work that must be supplied to get it to move.

And if that circuit is more than just a (theoretically) resistance-less why, then as that charge is picking up PE, some of that PE will be doing work in the circuit before it reaches the other terminal?
The PE that is gained by a charge does not do work as it is gained. It is the other way around. You must do work on the charge to get it to gain PE.

As a [positive] charge is released from the positive terminal and allowed to flow to the negative terminal, its potential energy is released. The PE that it loses is a source of work or heat in the circuit.

kostoglotov said:
So could we think of voltage as 'height'?
Yes. That analogy works.
 
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So when Chandra Prayaga said above

"It means that if you move a 1C charge from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, its potential energy increases by 9J."

They were describing something more akin to a battery being charged than a battery being used?
 
kostoglotov said:
So when Chandra Prayaga said above

"It means that if you move a 1C charge from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, its potential energy increases by 9J."

They were describing something more akin to a battery being charged than a battery being used?
Yes.
 
jbriggs444 said:
Yes.
Thanks, jbriggs444. Yes. The electric potential energy increases by 9J. That energy needs to be provided by the hand or whatever moves the positive charge. In the motion of any charge q from point A to point B, any number of forces could be acting on the charge, but the change in electric potential energy is UB - UA = q(VB - VA), where V stands for electric potential and U stands for electric potential energy.
 

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