What does it take to get in an elite EE program?

[pete5383]

Hey everyone. I've been doing some thinking about grad school, and I have a question.

I'm an undergrad in Electrical Engineering, and I plan on going to grad school after I graduate. There are three school that have alway been kind of my "dream" schools to go to do (MIT, Caltech, or Stanford), and I was just wondering, what does it take to get accepted into a school like this? Right now I'm sitting at a pretty good GPA, just shy of 4.0 (although I've heard my upcoming classes are very hard, so it might take a slide).
I saw somewhere that Stanford receives 1500 applications and there are only 75 accepted. I was wondering, what kind of GPA do I need to even have a shot? Also, what else is admission based on, and what could I do in the next couple years to improve my chances? Thank you!

 

[JasonJo]

what year are you entering in sept??

i know for mathematics/physics grad school, an elite GPA is usually required for elite programs; I'm guessing like a 3.7+ is elite? you need good GRE scores, i don't know if engineering programs require that you take the GRE Mathematics Subject exam, but you should get a 90% or above percentile score in the general GRE quantitative exam. Great reccomendations. In math/physics, i heard reccomendations are very very important, almost as important as grades to some degree, depending on the quality of the reccomendation. Also, try to do some research, just get involved with your EE faculty in some regard and stay involved.

the "ideal" candidate would have
1) excellent GPA
2) great reccomendations
3) research experience
4) top 90+ percentile scores in relevant GRE exams (GRE general and or GRE Math subjet)
5) and not as important, but coming from an elite undergrad also helps a lot; ie Harvard, MIT

hope this helps

 

[pete5383]

I'm going to be a sophmore this fall, attending the University of Minnesota, which is by no means an elite school, but I like to think that it's respectable.

 

[Brad Barker]

my friend is an EE (and also physics and math), and wants to get into MIT, stanford, or carnegie mellon.

not to discourage you but...

he's a goldwater scholar
he's a third author on a published paper
he's been taking seven classes a semester recently, most of which this upcoming semester are graduate courses
he wants to graduate with an MS in physics instead of a BS (this might not happen due to administrative policies, not because he won't have the necessary courses completed by graduation)
he's a triple major.
(not sure of his gpa, but i imagine it's quite high.)

...even he's worried about getting into those schools.

sorry to be a downer, but it's just extremely competitive, especially with MIT.

 

[Corneo]

Can you get a letter of reccomendation from a professor or manager that did go to one of those schools? They might have some pull.

 

[pete5383]

My advisor is a grad of Caltech, could I someday use him as a reference? I don't work real close with him in anything, but I think he likes me from the little bit we've talked. And yeah, I know that since I'm only a sophmore it might be a little early to be thinking about recommendations for grad school. But I suppose it's better to be thinking too early than too late, right?

Is there anything in particular I should be doing in these next couple years? Getting involved in research, internships, etc...? Thank you!

 

[Brad Barker]

My advisor is a grad of Caltech, could I someday use him as a reference? I don't work real close with him in anything, but I think he likes me from the little bit we've talked. And yeah, I know that since I'm only a sophmore it might be a little early to be thinking about recommendations for grad school. But I suppose it's better to be thinking too early than too late, right?

Is there anything in particular I should be doing in these next couple years? Getting involved in research, internships, etc...? Thank you!

talk to your advisor a lot, then! just don't be irritating. :tongue:

not sure if EE programs demand a lot of research for undergrads, but i imagine that it is important.

 

[pete5383]

Any particular minors or even a double major that would make me stand out? Like math, physics, or csci?

 

[Manchot]

My advisor is a grad of Caltech, could I someday use him as a reference? I don't work real close with him in anything, but I think he likes me from the little bit we've talked. And yeah, I know that since I'm only a sophmore it might be a little early to be thinking about recommendations for grad school. But I suppose it's better to be thinking too early than too late, right?

Is there anything in particular I should be doing in these next couple years? Getting involved in research, internships, etc...? Thank you!

It certainly wouldn't hurt to get involved with research. In fact, if I were you, I would try and get in touch with the most prominent professor in your department (assuming that you're interested in their research), because a recommendation from him or her could help you out a lot.

 

[Corneo]

It certainly wouldn't hurt to get involved with research. In fact, if I were you, I would try and get in touch with the most prominent professor in your department (assuming that you're interested in their research), because a recommendation from him or her could help you out a lot.

That earlier the better! Your "resume" pretty much as to be completed before your senior year. There is so much to do and so much needed to be done. Good luck.

 

[JasonJo]

I saw somewhere that Stanford receives 1500 applications and there are only 75 accepted.

so Stanford had a 5% acceptance rate? Sorry, completely wrong. According to US News World and Report Top Grad Schools, Stanford had a 35.8% acceptance rating for it's engineering program, in fact, no school in the top 50 had less than a 10% acceptance rating.

 

[pete5383]

My bad on saying Stanford, now that I look back, it was UC Berkeley that I was remembering.

"For Fall 2006 we had approximately 2500 applicants for about 75 slots."

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Gradadm/Competition.htm

I guess I really hadn't even looked at Stanford stats. Good to know at least they're somewhat high :)

 

[Maxwell]

It's nice to have goals and a plan for the future, and you should keep those - however, you still have ALL of your engineering classes to go. If you're not a sophomore yet, you've just barely started your engineering classes.

What you need to be concerned with right now is just keeping your GPA up. Don't bother with research right now. Just work hard, truly learn the material, and get to know your professors.

 

[pete5383]

Thanks Maxwell, I know that I may be...jumping the gun a bit. But I just want to make sure there's nothing I should be doing now (other than working on my current classes), I don't want to get into my senior year and think back and say "I wish I'd done this or this when I had a chance".

 

[pete5383]

Ok, here's a musing I had:

What looks better to admissions - having a great GPA (such as 3.9-40) and a single major in EE, or a less GPA (3.6-3.9) and a double major in like physics or csci? Because I'm afraid my GPA will drop if I take on the extra classes for the double major and still want to do a bit of research and have the occassional party/night of drinking on the weekends (you know...to make myself a well rounded person [I really don't do that much drinking, but would still like time to spend with friends])

 

[leright]

Ok, here's a musing I had:

What looks better to admissions - having a great GPA (such as 3.9-40) and a single major in EE, or a less GPA (3.6-3.9) and a double major in like physics or csci? Because I'm afraid my GPA will drop if I take on the extra classes for the double major and still want to do a bit of research and have the occassional party/night of drinking on the weekends (you know...to make myself a well rounded person [I really don't do that much drinking, but would still like time to spend with friends])

I am curious about this too. I will only have around a 3.5 GPA when I graduate (I am hoping around here) and am wondering if my double major in EE and physics will help me in being competitive. I too would like to go to a strong grad school like Berkeley, but after reading this thread it seems I will not be competitive, unless I land a phenomenal research job next summer or something.

I would like to add that I may finish with a minor in chemstry, for what it's worth.

 

[LeBrad]

Ok, here's a musing I had:

What looks better to admissions - having a great GPA (such as 3.9-40) and a single major in EE, or a less GPA (3.6-3.9) and a double major in like physics or csci? Because I'm afraid my GPA will drop if I take on the extra classes for the double major and still want to do a bit of research and have the occassional party/night of drinking on the weekends (you know...to make myself a well rounded person [I really don't do that much drinking, but would still like time to spend with friends])

I think the most important thing is to do research. You don't have to publish anything, and it doesn't even have to be related to what you want to study in grad school. But of the 3 main factors, recommendation letters, grades, and GRE scores, I think recommendation letters are by far the most important, and if you do reserach and get to know a professor and show him you are motivated, you will get a very good non-generic letter from that person. I think GPA is only important in the sense that you have to be above a certain threshhold, say, 3.5, but beyond that, I don't think they care about 3.7 vs 3.9. I would say take more classes if you want because it's always good to learn stuff and it shows you want to learn, and don't worry about a small GPA drop. I don't think double majors mean a whole lot.

 

[Corneo]

I think recommendation letters are by far the most important, and if you do reserach and get to know a professor and show him you are motivated, you will get a very good non-generic letter from that person.

One time I got a recommendation that that was only 3 sentences long. My professor basically said he had my in his class in class X and I got a good grade.

 

[pete5383]

Also, while we're sort of on the subject, would a Stanford-esque grad school get me a better job/starting pay than, say, where I'm at now at the University of Minnesota?

 

[leright]

Also, while we're sort of on the subject, would a Stanford-esque grad school get me a better job/starting pay than, say, where I'm at now at the University of Minnesota?

What matters most is what you do at grad school and not the name of the school. However, the more prestigious schools probably have more money to give you better research projects.

 

[Shoe]

I'm just going to piggy back on this forum:
I'm going to graduate (after 6 years) with degrees in Mechanical Engineering and Management Information Systems, with minors in English and ECE, with a GPA of 3.2; the reason my grades are relatively low is because when I had cancer, I still tried to take classes and did extremely poorly in them (yes, there are Fs on my record). After cancer, I was kicked out of my house, but I perservered, received multiple Grade A research gigs, taught engineering courses, head of the Solar Car Racing Team, I have two glowing letters of reccomendations (one from the dean), as well as a big chunk of real-world experience (developing open source solutions for the elderly and the third-world). Originially I had given up on grad school, but word on the street is that even places like Columbia favor holistic candidates and look more for your potential to contribute to the field. So: honestly, do I have a shot at a decent grad school (everything's above and beyond except GPA, which if you look at my transcripts, looks like someone flipped a switch one summer and I got straight A's for 3 years.)?

 

[leright]

I'm just going to piggy back on this forum:
I'm going to graduate (after 6 years) with degrees in Mechanical Engineering and Management Information Systems, with minors in English and ECE, with a GPA of 3.2; the reason my grades are relatively low is because when I had cancer, I still tried to take classes and did extremely poorly in them (yes, there are Fs on my record). After cancer, I was kicked out of my house, but I perservered, received multiple Grade A research gigs, taught engineering courses, head of the Solar Car Racing Team, I have two glowing letters of reccomendations (one from the dean), as well as a big chunk of real-world experience (developing open source solutions for the elderly and the third-world). Originially I had given up on grad school, but word on the street is that even places like Columbia favor holistic candidates and look more for your potential to contribute to the field. So: honestly, do I have a shot at a decent grad school (everything's above and beyond except GPA, which if you look at my transcripts, looks like someone flipped a switch one summer and I got straight A's for 3 years.)?

looks to me you will have a great shot at some top schools. If you have a good explanation for your low GPA then it isn't a problem. Also, make sure you perform well on your GREs.

 

[Corneo]

I'm just going to piggy back on this forum:
I'm going to graduate (after 6 years) with degrees in Mechanical Engineering and Management Information Systems, with minors in English and ECE, with a GPA of 3.2; the reason my grades are relatively low is because when I had cancer, I still tried to take classes and did extremely poorly in them (yes, there are Fs on my record). After cancer, I was kicked out of my house, but I perservered, received multiple Grade A research gigs, taught engineering courses, head of the Solar Car Racing Team, I have two glowing letters of reccomendations (one from the dean), as well as a big chunk of real-world experience (developing open source solutions for the elderly and the third-world). Originially I had given up on grad school, but word on the street is that even places like Columbia favor holistic candidates and look more for your potential to contribute to the field. So: honestly, do I have a shot at a decent grad school (everything's above and beyond except GPA, which if you look at my transcripts, looks like someone flipped a switch one summer and I got straight A's for 3 years.)?

On your personal statement you can explain the F's that you got due to your illness.

 

[pete5383]

Also, 3.2 isn't a bad GPA at all, is it? About half the people in my EE class have shirts that say "C's get Degrees"

 

[hukis83]

Surprise

The whole prestigious engineering institution propaganda is definitely true among soon-to-be college students.

I am a design engineer in the bay area with a company called SanDisk. One thing that will disappoint most of you is that, your degree doesn't matter after 1st week of your work at your job. You, the MIT elite, will be paid the same as the guy next to you who went to Oregon State University. Nobody apart from your manager will know what school you even went to, unless some troubled soul decides to inquire. One thing you do get out of going to those schools would be bragging at a bar scene. Your reputation is not built thru your degree, but through you proving to the team through weeks of hard work. I am personally a Purdue ECE alumnus, a current part-time grad student in Georgia Institute of Technology. I wasn't too happy with GA Tech's part-time grad course offerings, so I looked at a 20-minute drive school, Stanford, then somehow ended up in this site.

I've been with Dell, Hewlett-Packard, and SanDisk, and let me tell you, you don't see many MIT, Stanford, Berkeley graduates. Apart from Dell, I worked at one of the most hardcore state-of-the-art R&D groups, and still people from all over the place. It's actually a bit rare to see people from the "top 10" engineering institutions. I believe it all goes back to the whole diversity issue.

It's really great to see motivated young people. However, your life time goal should not be entering these prestigious institutions just because the American society says you need to. You should consider all aspect of the place from living conditions, to campus atmosphere, to surrounding areas, to funding situations, etc. I've seen people that got a full ride to GA Tech, but ended up going to MIT with no financial assistance. The actual education you get out of GA Tech and MIT is not very much different. The companies know that.

Just thought I would write a piece of warning advise to prevent a number of heart-broken and financially-broken, college graduates from prestigious institutions.

 

[creepypasta13]

The whole prestigious engineering institution propaganda is definitely true among soon-to-be college students.

I am a design engineer in the bay area with a company called SanDisk. One thing that will disappoint most of you is that, your degree doesn't matter after 1st week of your work at your job. You, the MIT elite, will be paid the same as the guy next to you who went to Oregon State University. Nobody apart from your manager will know what school you even went to, unless some troubled soul decides to inquire. One thing you do get out of going to those schools would be bragging at a bar scene. Your reputation is not built thru your degree, but through you proving to the team through weeks of hard work. I am personally a Purdue ECE alumnus, a current part-time grad student in Georgia Institute of Technology. I wasn't too happy with GA Tech's part-time grad course offerings, so I looked at a 20-minute drive school, Stanford, then somehow ended up in this site.

I've been with Dell, Hewlett-Packard, and SanDisk, and let me tell you, you don't see many MIT, Stanford, Berkeley graduates. Apart from Dell, I worked at one of the most hardcore state-of-the-art R&D groups, and still people from all over the place. It's actually a bit rare to see people from the "top 10" engineering institutions. I believe it all goes back to the whole diversity issue.

It's really great to see motivated young people. However, your life time goal should not be entering these prestigious institutions just because the American society says you need to. You should consider all aspect of the place from living conditions, to campus atmosphere, to surrounding areas, to funding situations, etc. I've seen people that got a full ride to GA Tech, but ended up going to MIT with no financial assistance. The actual education you get out of GA Tech and MIT is not very much different. The companies know that.

Just thought I would write a piece of warning advise to prevent a number of heart-broken and financially-broken, college graduates from prestigious institutions.

are you referring to industry? or industrial research and government research labs as well?

 

[keniwas]

It's really great to see motivated young people. However, your life time goal should not be entering these prestigious institutions just because the American society says you need to. You should consider all aspect of the place from living conditions, to campus atmosphere, to surrounding areas, to funding situations, etc. I've seen people that got a full ride to GA Tech, but ended up going to MIT with no financial assistance. The actual education you get out of GA Tech and MIT is not very much different. The companies know that.

I completely agree with the first part of your statement regarding that you should not go to a school just for the name. But should consider all the factors that play into it.

However, I completely disagree with the last two sentences. There is a vast difference in the education you will get between institutions at the graduate level. Not to mention the differences in funding between universities. It's a simple fact that places like Harvard/MIT/Stanford/(so called tier 1 schools) have a great deal more funding at their disposal than most universities do. As a result, especially for engineering or other applied sciences, the type of research you can do extends far beyond what could be accomplished at tier 2/3/etc... schools. That isn't to say that great research can't come from a place without a lot of money (it happens all the time), it is simply to suggest that your ability to pursue areas that interest you are not limited by issues of funding like they tend to be elsewhere.

Additionally the faculty at these schools are there for a reason. While this doesn't imply they are good teachers (in fact some of the best are terrible lectures in my experience). They are extraordinarily talented and creative researchers, and that's really what graduate school in the sciences/engineering is all about. That and making connections...

Which brings me to my other point. I completely disagree that the name on your degree doesn't go to impact the view a hiring committee has of your application. While it's absolutely true that you won't find a company who hires exclusively MIT grads (that's just silly and doesn't promote diversity in ideas), to say that if it comes down to two people, whom the only difference is their granting institution, that where they come from doesn't matter... that's in disagreement with the statement that society views these institutions with such high regard (which is why people consider them their 'dream' places).

The real point is if you are attending a place like Harvard/MIT/etc... and don't make connections with influential people in your field while you are there, then you have missed one of the principle reasons for going there in the first place. Don't forget, these institutions stay at the top not because THEY say it is so, but its because of the success of their students. They want you to go on and be hugely successful so you will give back to them.

All that said, it still remains true that aiming high because someone tells you to is not the correct reason to go.

Now, as for what it takes to get accepted, while everything that has been listed thus far is true, when it comes down to it the key factor is setting yourself apart from the rest of the applicants.

Most of these universities could fill their seats with 5.0GPA perfect GRE etc... if they wanted to. However, this doesn't promote diversity in ideas and they know that. As a corollary then, just having a perfect GPA and top GRE scores isn't going to be what gets you in. The most important things you need are examples of why you are going to be someone who is going to give back to the institution either financially, academically, or by bringing them accolades [i.e. are you going to bring home a Nobel/McArthur/etc..]. The best way to demonstrate this is going to be through your past research work (show them you know how to perform, an REU is very helpful in this area, also having publications if possible goes a long way), and through your letters of rec.

On the letters, it is extremely important to have people who are known by the admissions committee if possible. It gives so much more strength to the words in that letter if they know the person who wrote them. Of course it can also go the other way too, if your recommender is notorious for writing "This person is the best I have ever had!" on every letter they send out... then that's not going to help you very much. So choose your recommendations carefully.

Finally, which is perhaps the most important thing you can do if you want to attend these universities is to find someone who you want to work with and personally contact them. The more voices you have who will support you when it comes down to the final cut the better. If you have a professor who you have talked with about what your goals are, and why you want to work with them. Provided they agree with those goals, they will be much more inclined to support your application. That support is worth more than anything you could put on your application alone. It can make up for a less than great GPA or GRE score, and helps to keep your application at the top of the pile.