What Does the Definition of a Contravariant Vector Mean in Tensor Analysis?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter HasuChObe
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Tensor
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of contravariant vectors in tensor analysis, focusing on the relationship between vector components and coordinate transformations. Participants explore the implications of the definition provided in Schaum's outlines, particularly in the context of 2-D vectors and coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the definition of a contravariant vector and illustrates it with a 2-D vector example, discussing how the components change with different coordinate systems.
  • Another participant challenges the justification of the last equation presented, implying a potential misunderstanding in the transformation process.
  • A further reply elaborates on a 1-dimensional example to clarify the implications of the coordinate transformation, suggesting that the new coordinates may indicate a shrinkage in the original distance representation.
  • One participant agrees with the explanation provided, indicating that the length of the vector remains invariant despite the change in coordinate representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the definition of contravariant vectors and the implications of coordinate transformations. There is no consensus on the justification of the equations presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of the definition.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the transformation of vector components and the implications of coordinate changes. The assumptions regarding the nature of the coordinate systems and the invariance of vector lengths are not fully resolved.

HasuChObe
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
So I'm looking at Schaum's outlines for Tensors and the definition of a Contravariant vector is
<br /> \bar{T}^i=T^r\frac{\partial\bar{x}^i}{\partial x^r}<br />
Where \bar{x}^i and x^r denote components of 2 different coordinates (the superscript does not mean 'to the power of') and T^i and T^r are contravariant tensors of order 1 (aka, a vector).

Lets say you have some 2-D vector {\bf v}. It can be described as
<br /> {\bf v}=\bar{T}^1\hat{\bar{e}}_1+\bar{T}^2\hat{\bar{e}}_2=T^1\hat{e}_1+T^2 \hat{e}_2<br />
The vector {\bf v} is the same length, but the basis for each vector may be different. If the operation from (\hat{e}_1,\hat{e}_2)\rightarrow(\hat{\bar{e}}_1,\hat{\bar{e}}_2) performs elongation, then (T^1,T^2)\rightarrow(\hat{T}^1,\hat{T}^2) will shrink (and vice versa) to preserve the shape of {\bf v}. In this case, (T^1,T^2) are said to be contravariant vectors because they grow contrary to the direction that the basis grows in. However, the definition I found in Schaum's outlines seem to say the opposite.

For example, if
<br /> \bar{T}^i=2,\,T^r=1,\,\frac{\partial\bar{x}^i}{\partial x^r}=2<br />
Does that not say that going from unbarred to barred coordinates, the vector components are growing and so is the coordinate system? I must be confusing myself.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The last equation is unjustified.
 
Can you elaborate?
 
Let's just look at a 1 dimensional example (your example), take ##\bar{x}^1=2x^1## So that ##\frac{\partial \bar{x}^1}{\partial x^1}=2##. Then your example says if ##T^1=1## then ##\bar{T}^1=2##. Let's just assume the space is flat so things are easy.

But what does ##\bar{x}^1=2x^1## mean? At the point where the old ##x^1=1## the new ##\bar{x}^1=2##. So, if you think about it a bit, you will realize that your coordinates have actually shrank since you need a larger number to describe the same distance. In other words, it would be like if you switched from meters to half-meter measurements. Where the old coordinate says 1 meter, your new coordinate says 2 half meters. Therefore, your old vector was 1 meter long, your new vector is 2 half meters long. The length of the vector has remained invariant. In this example, the two vectors both point to a distance 1 meter from the origin!
 
Good explanation!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K