News What drives the creator of fake news to continue?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nsaspook
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    News
Click For Summary
The creator of fake news, Coler, profits significantly from ad revenue on his websites, reportedly earning between $10,000 and $30,000 monthly, particularly by targeting Trump supporters. Despite claiming that his motivation is to demonstrate the ease of spreading fake news, he acknowledges that financial incentives play a major role in his actions. The discussion highlights concerns about the broader implications of fake news, including the potential for government regulation and the influence of foreign propaganda, particularly from Russia. Participants express skepticism about the credibility of sources identifying Russian involvement in fake news, suggesting that many independent creators primarily act for profit. Overall, the conversation underscores the complex interplay between financial gain, misinformation, and the integrity of news sources in the digital age.
  • #31
More from Mr. Pizzagate - I just wanted to do some good.
“The intel on this wasn’t 100 percent,” he admitted, saying he recently had Internet service installed and his online research left him with the “impression something nefarious was happening.”

He also said he listens to talk radio host Alex Jones, a prominent conspiracy theorist who has even questioned the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where a gunman shot and killed 20 children and six adults.
I wonder why the music from Deliverance going through my head right now? :doh:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Borg said:
More from Mr. Pizzagate - I just wanted to do some good.
I wonder why the music from Deliverance going through my head right now? :doh:

You can't fix stupid.

 
  • #33
https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/...ppends-editors-note-russian-propaganda-story/
Editor’s Note: The Washington Post on Nov. 24 published a story on the work of four sets of researchers who have examined what they say are Russian propaganda efforts to undermine American democracy and interests. One of them was PropOrNot, a group that insists on public anonymity, which issued a report identifying more than 200 websites that, in its view, wittingly or unwittingly published or echoed Russian propaganda. A number of those sites have objected to being included on PropOrNot’s list, and some of the sites, as well as others not on the list, have publicly challenged the group’s methodology and conclusions. The Post, which did not name any of the sites, does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot’s findings regarding any individual media outlet, nor did the article purport to do so. Since publication of The Post’s story, PropOrNot has removed some sites from its list.


It seems the WaPo editors have acknowledged that at least one major source in the Russian propaganda story didn't look very good on close inspection.

http://fair.org/home/why-are-media-outlets-still-citing-discredited-fake-news-blacklist/
Almost everyone outside of the Washington Post who critically examined the list concluded it was at best shoddy and ill-considered, and at worst a deliberate attempt to encourage a chilling effect on Russia-related reporting. That a group of Cold Warrior hacks would publish such a blacklist is not a surprise; that one of the most established names in American news would uncritically parrot it was. Its reporting, writing-up and referencing is a prime example of how fake real news on real fake news spreads without question.

USA Today (11/25/16), Gizmodo (11/25/16), PBS (11/25/16), The Daily Beast (11/25/16), Slate (11/25/16), AP (11/25/16) The Verge (11/25/16) andNPR (11/25/16) all uncritically wrote up the Post’s most incendiary claims with little or minimal pushback. Gizmodo was so giddy its original headline had to be changed from “Research Confirms That Russia Played a Major Role in Spreading Fake News” to “Research Suggests That Russia Played a Major Role in Spreading Fake News,” presumably after some polite commenters pointed out that the research “confirmed” nothing of the sort.
 
  • #34
It's difficult anymore to believe much of anything that has political ramifications.

Just stay aware of what's plausible and see which ones pan out .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails - they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for 'disgusted' Democratic whistleblowers
  • Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and associate of Julian Assange, told the Dailymail.com he flew to Washington, D.C. for emails
  • He claims he had a clandestine hand-off in a wooded area near American University with one of the email sources

That one's at least as plausible as this:

BorisNatasha.jpg
 
  • Like
Likes mheslep and Bystander
  • #35
Pakistan Threatens Nuclear Attack Retaliation On Israel over fake news report.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pakistan-threatens-nuclear-attack-israel-194124079.html
a typo-riddled http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1483926183/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL2F3ZG5ld3MuY29tL3BvbGl0aWNhbC9pc3JhZWxpLWRlZmVuc2UtbWluaXN0ZXItaWYtcGFraXN0YW4tc2VuZC1ncm91bmQtdHJvb3BzLWludG8tc3lyaWEtb24tYW55LXByZXRleHQsLXdlLXdpbGwtZGVzdHJveS10aGVtLXdpdGgtYS1udWNsZWFyLWF0dGFjawA-/RS=%5EADApRrIrVXoA.0Xufvf2WIWbS3nKj8- on AWD News was posted last Tuesday quoting former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon (Israel’s current defense minister is Avigdor Lieberman) as saying he would “destroy” Pakistan prompted a response Saturday from Pakistan's Defense Minister Khawaja Asif, threatening nuclear retaliation.
I have to wonder about the veracity of news reports these days. Certainly, fake news or false information could have dire consequences in some domains, especially if it provides retaliation by one state or group to another.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #36
I just came across this a financial service to which is subscribe. Germany is considering a legal regime (their terminology) that would fine social networks up to 500,000 euros a day for fake news left on their website after it was requested to delete it. It would force the social networks to create departments which would concentrate on takedown demands and would make the networks liable for compensation if a post proved slanderous.
 
  • #37
gleem said:
... Germany is considering a legal regime (their terminology) that would fine social networks up to 500,000 euros a day for fake news left on their website after it was requested to delete it. It would force the social networks to create departments which would concentrate on takedown demands and would make the networks liable for compensation if a post proved slanderous.

Germany can start then by fining itself for this bit of fake news:
Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany, Art 5:
Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures, and to inform himself from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship...
 
  • #38
zoobyshoe said:
I find this statement very disturbing:
Sorry, what is the source of that quote about General Flynn and pizzagate? The common story was about a relative (son?), not the General himself.
 
  • #39
mheslep said:
Sorry, what is the source of that quote about General Flynn and pizzagate? The common story was about a relative (son?), not the General himself.
Good question. The line I copied and pasted in my post #27 above says:

Even retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who President-elect Donald Trump has tapped to advise him on national security, shared #PizzaGate stories.

Now, however, that line in the Yahoo story is no longer worded that exact way. Now it says:

Even retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, who President-elect Donald Trump has tapped to advise him on national security, shared similar conspiratorial stories.

So, someone at Yahoo edited the original wording, but that only fixed part of the problem, not the full problem, because the obvious implication is that, either way it's worded, following that link should take you to examples of General Flynn (not the son) linking either to pizzagate or similar stories. But it doesn't. All it says that might be relevant is that the General frequently tags his son's tweets. We know some of his son's tweets were about pizzagate, but there is no evidence offered those were what the General shared.

So, the question remains: Did General Flynn himself ever link to pizzagate or similar stories? Here's where that question lead me:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/kfile-flynn-tweets/

Which asserts General Flynn regularly links on twitter to the author of this story:

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/1...x-cult-with-connections-to-human-trafficking/

Which is full of unmitigated crap that was eventually subsumed into the pizzagate scenario.

Checking that, it looks like General Flynn did actually reference that author many times, and encouraged people to read him/follow him:

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=from:genflynn @cernovich&src=typd

So, the actual situation seems to be that General Flynn has enthusiastically tweeted about an author who, incidentally or not, threw much gasoline on, and fanned the flames of, what eventually became pizzagate.
 
  • #40
editorsnote.png

"The Washington Post has now added an Editors’ Note to its story acknowledging that its key claim was false:"

It looks like the WaPo was running a fake new story about Russian hacking. What's more likely, Russia hacked the Vermont power grid or someone picked up a random computer virus on a laptop while surfing porn?
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31...-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/
So the key scary claim of the Post story – that Russian hackers had penetrated the U.S. electric grid – was false. All the alarmist tough-guy statements issued by political officials who believed the Post’s claim were based on fiction.

Even worse, there is zero evidence that Russian hackers were responsible even for the implanting of this malware on this single laptop. The fact that malware is “Russian-made” does not mean that only Russians can use it; indeed, like a lot of malware, it can purchased (as Jeffrey Carr has https://medium.com/@jeffreycarr/the-dnc-breach-and-the-hijacking-of-common-sense-20e89dacfc2b#.cudc64atc, assuming that Russian-made malware must have been used by Russians is as irrational as finding a Russian-made Kalishnikov AKM rifle at a crime scene and assuming the killer must be Russian).

The Washington Post’s bad journalism strikes again.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes jim hardy, russ_watters and mheslep
  • #41
nsaspook said:
It looks like the WaPo was running a fake new story about Russian hacking

If you read the original story the WP reported what was told to them by the "government officials". Clearly whether or not there was a hack is not within the purview of a newspaper. The "government officials" apparently jumped the gun in releasing the information. So not "fake news" at least as I would interpret the term, incorrect, yes. The real term should be " faked news" as the intension is to mislead.
 
  • Like
Likes zoobyshoe
  • #42
gleem said:
If you read the original story the WP reported what was told to them by the "government officials". Clearly whether or not there was a hack is not within the purview of a newspaper. The "government officials" apparently jumped the gun in releasing the information. So not "fake news" at least as I would interpret the term, incorrect, yes. The real term should be " faked news" as the intension is to mislead.

All they had to do was to verify the story with the utility first before printing the original headlines and story. If they were faked it was because they either wanted to be or were just too damn lazy to check.
 
  • #43
nsaspook said:
All they had to do was to verify the story with the utility first before printing the original headlines and story. If they were faked it was because they either wanted to be or were just too damn lazy to check.
Notice the alarmed quotes in the WP story were generated directly from the utilities' report and not in response to the WP story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c2a61b0436f_story.html?utm_term=.63dd103d9627
 
  • #44
zoobyshoe said:
Notice the alarmed quotes in the WP story were generated directly from the utilities' report and not in response to the WP story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c2a61b0436f_story.html?utm_term=.63dd103d9627

That might be true as I don't have the exact timeline but the original source 'quoted' in the WaPo story was from "government officials" (the Vermont Power Utility is a company) with a completely misleading link headline of "russian-hackers-penetrated-us-electricity-grid-through-a-utility-in-vermont" I don't see any facts of that in the utilities' report.
 
Last edited:
  • #45
gleem said:
Clearly whether or not there was a hack is not within the purview of a newspaper.
Accuracy is the responsibility of every newspaper; their are no escape clauses. An unnamed government source which turns out to be bogus is no excuse, especially when the source is unnamed. However, for a propaganda outlet, 'somebody in government said' is simply doing the job, carrying out orders.

The "government officials" apparently jumped the gun in releasing the information.
Possible, but there's no evidence here that this is the case. Per the wikileaks scenarios, this could be another case of 'here, go print this to Russia in the news'.
 
  • #46
Recall White House communications adviser Ben Rhodes' opinion of today's reporters:
“All these newspapers used to have foreign bureaus,” he said. “Now they don’t. They call us to explain to them what’s happening in Moscow and Cairo. Most of the outlets are reporting on world events from Washington. The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That’s a sea change. They literally know nothing.”
 
  • #47
zoobyshoe said:
Notice the alarmed quotes in the WP story were generated directly from the utilities' report and not in response to the WP story:
No, there is nothing in the WaPo story indicating where the Governor got his information to make those comments about Russian involvement:
Friday night, Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin (D) called on federal officials “to conduct a full and complete investigation of this incident and undertake remedies to ensure that this never happens again.”“Vermonters and all Americans should be both alarmed and outraged that one of the world’s leading thugs, Vladimir Putin, has been attempting to hack our electric grid, which we rely upon to support our quality-of-life, economy, health, and safety,” Shumlin said in a statement. “This episode should highlight the urgent need for our federal government to vigorously pursue and put an end to this sort of Russian meddling.”

That's it. For all I know, it might have been in response to some reporter's suggestion, for instance, "Gov: unnamed sources in the federal government stated that Russia hacked your utility. Can you comment?"
 
  • #48
mheslep said:
That's it. For all I know, it might have been in response to some reporter's suggestion, for instance, "Gov: unnamed sources in the federal government stated that Russia hacked your utility

I sense a bias here. Take the article and retraction for what it is. Someone jumped the gun (and I do not put much onus on the WP) because of the current hacking controversy and computer being a the Burlington Electric facility that has some malware. In any company one would assume that it was connected to the network. The governor and a senator were briefed. It would seem official to me at this point. It may be a failing of our press culture but first with the news is king.

It would seem that the persons finding the malware should have verified that it was a real problem before alerting senior administrators.
 
  • #49
gleem said:
Take the article and retraction for what it is
Baffling. Maybe take another look at the topic of this thread.

The governor and a senator were briefed.
Where do you get that information?
 
  • #50
mheslep said:
No, there is nothing in the WaPo story indicating where the Governor got his information to make those comments about Russian involvement:That's it. For all I know, it might have been in response to some reporter's suggestion, for instance, "Gov: unnamed sources in the federal government stated that Russia hacked your utility. Can you comment?"
Correct: we don't know where the governor got his info. However:
The firm said it took immediate action to isolate the laptop and alert federal authorities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c2a61b0436f_story.html?utm_term=.027f93074963
And:
Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said he was briefed on the attempts to penetrate the electric grid by Vermont State Police on Friday evening.
So, it's equally possible his source was non-journalistic.
 
  • Like
Likes mheslep
  • #51
In any event, I'm topping off my dollar store wanna-be Tesla Power Wall.
I'll have power for days!

Thanks for the heads up @nsaspook .
As you know, winter is coming.
 
  • Like
Likes nsaspook
  • #52
gleem said:
So not "fake news" at least as I would interpret the term, incorrect, yes. The real term should be " faked news" as the intension is to mislead.
I agree. Snopes has a good article differentiating between purposeful fake news and just bad news from mainstream sources. They argue - and I agree - that bad news is a much bigger problem. And indeed I think the dropping quality of major news outlets has "primed the pump" for fake news. It has made it tougher to identify good news and tougher to trust major news sources, making people more likely to believe the fully fake news.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/17/we-have-a-bad-news-problem-not-a-fake-news-problem/
 
  • Like
Likes Dan8420, Borg and nsaspook
  • #53
Fake or Faked? This article does a good examination of the WaPo power-grid story with the timing of the original story (7:55PM EST, sourced from "government officals"), the utility statement (9:37PM EST) , story changes (between 8PM and 10PM EST) and headline/story changes after the Burlington Electric statement (10:30PM EST).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevle...ssian-hacking-of-the-power-grid/#28c0c17e291e
The original article was posted online on the Washington Post's website at 7:55PM EST. Using the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, we can see that sometime between 9:24PM and 10:06PM the Post updated the article to indicate that multiple computer systems at the utility had been breached ("computers" plural), but that further data was still being collected: “Officials said that it is unclear when the code entered the Vermont utility’s computers, and that an investigation will attempt to determine the timing and nature of the intrusion.” Several paragraphs of additional material were added between 8PM and 10PM, claiming and contextualizing the breach as part of a broader campaign of Russian hacking against the US, including the DNC and Podesta email breaches.
...
Yet, as the Post’s story ricocheted through the politically charged environment, other media outlets and technology experts began questioning the Post’s claims and the utility company itself finally issued a formal statement at 9:37PM EST, just an hour and a half after the Post's publication, pushing back on the Post’s claims: “We detected the malware in a single Burlington Electric Department laptop not connected to our organization’s grid systems. We took immediate action to isolate the laptop and alerted federal officials of this finding.”
...
Particularly fascinating that the original Post story mentioned that there were only two major power utilities in Vermont and that Burlington Electric was one of them, meaning it would have been easy to call both companies for comment. However, while the article mentions contacting DHS for comment, there is no mention of any kind that the Post reached out to either of the two utilities for comment. Given that Burlington issued its formal statement denying the Post’s claims just an hour and a half later, this would suggest that had the Post reached out to the company it likely could have corrected its story prior to publication.
...
Putting this all together, what can we learn from this? The first is that, as with the Santa Claus and PropOrNot stories, the journalism world tends to rely far more on trust than fact checking.
...
The second is that the news media is overly dependent on government sources. Glenn Greenwald raises the fantastic point that journalists must be more cautious in treating the word of governments as absolute truth. Indeed, a certain fraction of the world’s false and misleading news actually comes from the mouths of government spokespeople. Yet, in the Post’s case, it appears that a government source tipped off the post about a sensational story of Russians hacking the US power grid and instead of reaching out to the utilities themselves or gathering further detail, the Post simply published the story as fed to them by the government officials.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes mheslep and jim hardy
  • #54
russ_watters said:
And indeed I think the dropping quality of major news outlets has "primed the pump" for fake news. It has made it tougher to identify good news and tougher to trust major news sources, making people more likely to believe the fully fake news.
Since I got a couple of "likes", I'll expand: In addition to the bad quality of the news itself, many major news outlets prominently feature "fake news" in the form of advertisements dressed-up to look like news. For example, this is on CNN:

Fake.jpg


Notice the section titled "Paid Content" is formatted the same as "More from CNN". The source is also shown, but since many of the sources have unidentifiable names (or names purposely chosen to look like news sources), it isn't always easy to tell that you are clicking on advertising instead of 3rd party "news" content (which CNN also hosts but doesn't identify differently from its own content). Notice also the top section doesn't have a header. I scrolled past it to illustrate that if you scroll or skim you might not see the "Paid Content" header, which is also on that top section.

CNN does this because unlike a newspaper where advertisements are designed to get your attention, these advertisements are designed to be stealthy in order to trick you into clicking on them. That's because the business model is gets CNN paid for click-throughs. In other words, CNN is purposely trying to trick you into thinking fake news is real news; purposely hiding fake news amongst its real news.

Interestingly, a couple of months ago, CNN removed most of the "Paid Content" section from the front page on its main site. It still features prominently at the bottom of every article (which is where I got this) and the full "Paid Content" section still appears on the front page of its mobile site. The cynic in me thinks the minimization of the "Paid Content" section might have been timed with the "outcry" over fake news, as perhaps someone at CNN realized that CNN is doing *exactly* what it was complaining about was happening on facebook.
 
  • Like
Likes Logical Dog, mheslep, OCR and 2 others
  • #55
zoobyshoe said:
Notice the alarmed quotes in the WP story were generated directly from the utilities' report and not in response to the WP story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c2a61b0436f_story.html?utm_term=.63dd103d9627

Now that we have a good timeline (thanks forbes) we can see the huge factual disconnect with what the utility reported to the government, its statement in response to the original WaPo story and what the WaPo wrote in its original story using information from a government source. I'm more saddened than shocked about the amount of disinformation this story generated by wild unwarranted speculation before any real facts were known.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.af96f8f5c03a
As federal officials investigate suspicious Internet activity found last week on a Vermont utility computer, they are finding evidence that the incident is not linked to any Russian government effort to target or hack the utility, according to experts and officials close to the investigation.

An employee at Burlington Electric Department was checking his Yahoo email account Friday and triggered an alert indicating that his computer had connected to a suspicious IP address associated by authorities with the Russian hacking operation that infiltrated the Democratic Party. Officials told the company that traffic with this particular address is found elsewhere in the country and is not unique to Burlington Electric, suggesting the company wasn’t being targeted by the Russians. Indeed, officials say it is possible that the traffic is benign, since this particular IP address is not always connected to malicious activity.
...
U.S. officials are continuing to investigate the laptop. In the course of their investigation, though, they have found on the device a package of software tools commonly used by online criminals to deliver malware. The package, known as Neutrino, does not appear to be connected with Grizzly Steppe, which U.S. officials have identified as the Russian hacking operation. The FBI, which declined to comment, is continuing to investigate how the malware got onto the laptop.

facehand.gif
 
  • #56
nsaspook said:
Im more saddened...

If the source is considered as similar to the National Inquirer, problem solved.
 
  • Like
Likes nsaspook
  • #57
False or Fake the damage is done if you believe in the accurate and truthful reporting of facts instead of fearmongering story's about Russia.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04...reat-while-public-is-deceived/#comment-330952
But while these debacles are embarrassing for the paper, they are also richly rewarding. That’s because journalists — including those at the Post — aggressively hype and promote the original, sensationalistic false stories, ensuring that they go viral, generating massive traffic for the Post (the paper’s executive editor, Marty Baron, recently boasted about how profitable the paper has become).
...
WHETHER THE POST’S false stories here can be distinguished from what is commonly called “Fake News” is, at this point, a semantic dispute, particularly since “Fake News” has no cogent definition. Defenders of Fake News as a distinct category typically emphasize intent in order to differentiate it from bad journalism. That’s really just a way of defining Fake News so as to make it definitionally impossible for mainstream media outlets like the Post ever to be guilty of it (much the way terrorism is defined to ensure that the U.S. government and its allies cannot, by definition, ever commit it).
...
That the story ends up being completely discredited matters little. The damage is done, and the benefits received. Fake News in the narrow sense of that term is certainly something worth worrying about. But whatever one wants to call this type of behavior from the Post, it is a much greater menace given how far the reach is of the institutions that engage in it.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters
  • #58
The network(s) doth protest too much, methinks.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters and Bystander
  • #59
nsaspook said:
False or Fake the damage is done if you believe in the accurate and truthful reporting of facts instead of fearmongering story's about Russia.

"WHETHER THE POST’S false stories here can be distinguished from what is commonly called “Fake News” is, at this point, a semantic dispute, particularly since “Fake News” has no cogent definition. Defenders of Fake News as a distinct category typically emphasize intent in order to differentiate it from bad journalism. That’s really just a way of defining Fake News so as to make it definitionally impossible for mainstream media outlets like the Post ever to be guilty of it..."
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04...reat-while-public-is-deceived/#comment-330952
Terrorism example aside, I agree, which is why I think the Snopes article saying "bad" news is a worse issue is relevant. Regardless of what you want to call it, the fact that news outlets willingly/gleefully profit from sensationalism (charitable characterization) is a long-standing and substantial problem, far outweighing the new "fake news" problem at the very least due to ts longevity.
 
  • Like
Likes mheslep and nsaspook

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 57 ·
2
Replies
57
Views
6K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
8K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
11K
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K