News What drives the creator of fake news to continue?

[mheslep]

..According to the CIA, apparently, those sources have been vetted as "credible,"...

Not according to the CIA, but vaguely according to CNN, who cite anonymous sources about past work.

...The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible.

The NYT states those claims are "unvetted", a reason they cite for not publishing the dossier/appendix, i.e. they are, for now, exercising responsible editorial control in my view.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If I could ask your for a link to the CBS coverage in question? I'm asking out of curiosity, not with the intent to argue.

About 2 and a half minutes in:

http://audio.cbsradionewsfeed.com/2017/01/05/08/Hourly-08.mp3

 

[nsaspook]

Not according to the CIA, but vaguely according to CNN, who cite anonymous sources about past work.
The NYT states those claims are "unvetted", a reason they cite for not publishing the dossier/appendix, i.e. they are, for now, exercising responsible editorial control in my view.

+1
From the NYT:

So what changed on Tuesday? Why is this now being reported and discussed by every news media organization?

CNN broke the news that a summary of the memos had been attached to the classified report by the F.B.I., C.I.A. and National Security Agency on the Russian hacking and leaking during the presidential election and that it was given to Mr. Obama, Mr. Trump and Congressional leaders last week. That level of official attention prompted news media organizations to decide to inform the public about the memos.
...
But why put the summary in a report going to multiple people in Congress and the executive branch, virtually assuring it would be leaked?

So now according to a senior intelligence official with knowledge of preparations for the briefing the memo was for the sole effect of helping Trump to draw the distinction for Trump between analyzed intelligence and unvetted "disinformation." They didn't show him or talk about the contents of the memo (or the one about Hillary) so it looks like he was able to tell the obvious difference between the two with no extra help.
I would like to know just who and why that person believed that this was a good idea during a factual briefing session about serious problems with Russia espionage operations with the top intel chiefs. It seems a very unusual element to have in the briefing folder during these types of circumstances.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Not according to the CIA, but vaguely according to CNN, who cite anonymous sources about past work.

From the linked article:

Some of the memos were circulating as far back as last summer. What has changed since then is that US intelligence agencies have now checked out the former British intelligence operative and his vast network throughout Europe and find him and his sources to be credible enough to include some of the information in the presentations to the President and President-elect a few days ago.

In the video that is posted on the same page as the article, the FBI is specifically claimed by those reporters to have vetted the British agent and his sources. (I mis-rememberd the specified agency as the CIA: my bad.)

So, the reporters made a clear claim that can now be denied by the FBI if it is not true. We'll see.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you're going to specify an 'ultimate' source, I don't think Mother Jones fits.

That's fair. Let's instead say "first reported use of this material in the mainstream media" or, if you like "who the website got it from".

 

[zoobyshoe]

I would like to know just who and why that person believed that this was a good idea during a factual briefing session about serious problems with Russia espionage operations with the top intel chiefs. It seems a very unusual element to have in the briefing folder during these types of circumstances.

Because Trump has made loud claims the intelligence community is unreliable. That being the case, someone decided they couldn't just brief him, they had also to be prepared to school him in what an authentically unreliable intelligence looks like. As you say, it did not come down to that, apparently. He was, however, later shown the unreliable report, after the official briefing was over.

 

[nsaspook]

He was, however, later shown the unreliable report, after the official briefing was over.

Yes he was, after it was leaked to the media.

I'm sure this will firm-up his belief in the intelligence agencies.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yes he was, after it was leaked to the media.

I know your NBC link claims he was never given the 2 page synopsis the day of the briefing (Fri. Jan 6th) but CNN says they confirmed he was. One outlet's word against the other's.

Regardless, as Vanadium mentioned, Mother Jones discussed the existence of this "dossier" several months ago, and, after Harry Reid publicly pointed a finger at the FBI, saying he knew they had "explosive" info about Trump and Russia quite a few weeks back, it seems like a stretch for you to imply Trump was blind sided by the Buzzfeed article, that he had no idea anyone was making any such claims. I haven't seen any dates anywhere for when the actual dossier became available to the media, nor have I seen any claims about who specifically made it available to them. The impression I got was that it's been out there for months but that no one before Buzzfeed wanted to touch it with a ten foot pole.

I'm sure this will firm-up his belief in the intelligence agencies.

Are you saying he thinks the intelligence community leaked to Buzzfeed, or simply that he blames the intelligence community for not warning him the info was out there, or something else?

 

[nsaspook]

I know your NBC link claims he was never given the 2 page synopsis the day of the briefing (Fri. Jan 6th) but CNN says they confirmed he was. One outlet's word against the other's.

Regardless, as Vanadium mentioned, Mother Jones discussed the existence of this "dossier" several months ago, and, after Harry Reid publicly pointed a finger at the FBI, saying he knew they had "explosive" info about Trump and Russia quite a few weeks back, it seems like a stretch for you to imply Trump was blind sided by the Buzzfeed article, that he had no idea anyone was making any such claims. I haven't seen any dates anywhere for when the actual dossier became available to the media, nor have I seen any claims about who specifically made it available to them. The impression I got was that it's been out there for months but that no one before Buzzfeed wanted to touch it with a ten foot pole.Are you saying he thinks the intelligence community leaked to Buzzfeed, or simply that he blames the intelligence community for not warning him the info was out there, or something else?

Read carefully, most of the text in their story seems to imply that but CNN does not confirm that. We know it was included in the document stack but even CNN says they don't know if it was used and have NOT said that NBC is incorrect.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/

CNN has confirmed that the synopsis was included in the documents that were presented to Mr. Trump but cannot confirm if it was discussed in his meeting with the intelligence chiefs.

It was the leak that a memo (synopsis) about the unvetted information was included as possible briefing material in the classified briefing that DNI is talking about. This generated false stories about the intelligence agencies using that memo to warning Trump about possible blackmail attempts from Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38596459

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said on Wednesday evening that the intelligence community had made no judgment on whether they were reliable.
...
Mr Clapper also said he had rejected Mr Trump's suggestion that US intelligence was responsible for leaking the claims.
The spymaster said both men had agreed the security breach was "extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security".

Mr Clapper said he had also assured the president-elect the intelligence community "stands ready to serve his administration".

So yes: I'm sure this will firm-up his belief in the intelligence agencies.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Read carefully, most of the text in their story seems to imply that but CNN does not confirm that. We know it was included in the document stack but even CNN says they don't know if it was used and have NOT said that NBC is incorrect.

What I'm getting out of that is: he was given a copy of the 2 page synopsis along with everything else, but it was not specifically discussed at the briefing. Point being, he had the information despite it not being verbally presented to him or discussed.

It was the leak that a memo (synopsis) about the unvetted information was included as possible briefing material in the classified briefing that DNI is talking about. This generated false stories about the intelligence agencies using that synopsis to warning Trump about possible blackmail attempts from Russia.

If those stories that the intelligence agencies planned to use the memo that way are false, it's kind of a non-event, isn't it? This isn't what anyone is upset about. The pee hit the fan when Buzzfeed published the whole 35 page collection of memos from the British guy (now known as Steele). Your link:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...nt-to-malign-mr-trump/512762/?utm_source=feed

It's not a leak of the existence of a two page summary whose purpose has been mischaracterized by the media that lit any fires. Trump's been defending himself against the explicit stream of Russian intelligence hearsay/rumor only found in the Buzzfeed article.

 

[nsaspook]

It should have been a non-event but it was leaked, seemly in a way that put the worst possible misleading or false spin on the information.

The sequence of the latest news blowup is CNN was first with a match with the leaked memo story and Buzzfeed published the whole 35 page collection of memos in a response.

BuzzFeed News reporters in the US and Europe have been investigating various alleged facts in the dossier but have not verified or falsified them. CNN reported Tuesday that a two-page synopsis of the report was given to President Obama and Trump.

Now BuzzFeed News is publishing the full document so that Americans can make up their own minds about allegations about the president-elect that have circulated at the highest levels of the US government.

 

[mheslep]

What I'm getting out of that is: he was given a copy of the 2 page synopsis along with everything else, but it was not specifically discussed at the briefing. Point being, he had the information despite it not being verbally presented to him or discussed...

No per NBC, no per Fox.

Trump was not given any summary of Russian claims about compromising info, source says

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...aims-about-compromising-info-source-says.html

 

[zoobyshoe]

I guess, but it seems like you two are trying to split a hair that doesn't require splitting for your point to be made. Buzzfeed asserts, simply, that CNN reported the documents were given to Trump. It makes no mention of the reason CNN gives for why the documents might have been given to Trump as justification for its own release of the full slew of memos. Instead it says, "Now BuzzFeed News is publishing the full document so that Americans can make up their own minds about allegations about the president-elect that have circulated at the highest levels of the US government." A justification which sounds pretty disingenuous to me. Regardless, all that was required to trigger Buzzfeed was an assertion the documents had been given to Trump. I don't see the included reasons as playing an important role.

 

[zoobyshoe]

"first reported use of this material in the mainstream media"

And, incidentally, here it is:

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...ging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump

 

[nsaspook]

I guess, but it seems like you two are trying to split a hair that doesn't require splitting for your point to be made. Buzzfeed asserts, simply, that CNN reported the documents were given to Trump. It makes no mention of the reason CNN gives for why the documents might have been given to Trump as justification for its own release of the full slew of memos. Instead it says, "Now BuzzFeed News is publishing the full document so that Americans can make up their own minds about allegations about the president-elect that have circulated at the highest levels of the US government." A justification which sounds pretty disingenuous to me. Regardless, all that was required to trigger Buzzfeed was an assertion the documents had been given to Trump. I don't see the included reasons as playing an important role.

I agree with your main points that this should have been a nothing story or at least a story about why Trump needs the IC to help him navigate the minefield of being President but CNN broke the MSM embargo on these rumors with an 'exclusive' that parts of 'made for money' 'find me dirt' rumors were in the mix as a possible attempt to compromise him.

"Intel chiefs presented Trump with claims of Russian efforts to compromise him"

 

[zoobyshoe]

FWIW, CNN is now saying Biden has confirmed he and Obama were briefed about the British memos, and neither thought it was worth much:

Biden's office confirmed that the vice president said he and Obama were briefed about the claims but said that neither Biden nor Obama asked for more information about them. Biden's office also said the vice president told reporters that intelligence leaders felt obligated to tell Obama because they were planning on informing Trump. Biden also said he read the entire 35-page report.
Biden's office also confirmed that Obama, according to the vice president, asked, "What does this have to do with anything?"
The comments by Biden are the first by any top government official confirming that they were told about the allegations as part of their intelligence briefing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/politics/joe-biden-donald-trump-intelligence-report/index.html

 

[mheslep]

NBC's Chuck Todd interviewed the Buzzfeed editor. Todd is sharply critical of the guy on air, and more so than I ever recall seeing in a news outlet on news outlet exchange.

@5:40
"You made a knowing decision to put out an untruth"

 

[nsaspook]

National Inquirer
TMZ
Buzzfeed
Weekly World News

 

[jim hardy]

Think somebody in intel might've set up somebody in journalism ?

"Go play your hand you big-talkin' man, make a big fool of yourself ! _{june carter cash} "

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

What a despicable act. It's a shame the profanity filter on PF won't let me properly express my true feelings.

I think saying it is a despicable act is very expressive. Just for the information of the people who run this forum, I like the profanity filter and the PF quality control in general. This is the only social media I am on now, because there is moderation or, if you prefer, censorship. So I say thanks to PF for providing at least one place where there can be a civil discussion, without nastiness. I also like the absence of pseudoscience. Long live editorial standards!

 

[Evo]

I think saying it is a despicable act is very expressive. Just for the information of the people who run this forum, I like the profanity filter and the PF quality control in general. This is the only social media I am on now, because there is moderation or, if you prefer, censorship. So I say thanks to PF for providing at least one place where there can be a civil discussion, without nastiness. I also like the absence of pseudoscience. Long live editorial standards!

Drakkith's quote was from November of 2016 about fake news about Clinton and Trump, just for those that don't know. It has nothing to do with what is being discussed now.

 

[zoobyshoe]

OK, NBC is now saying Comey, himself, took Trump aside on Fri. (Jan 6th), after the briefing, and told him about the dossier of British memos:

President-elect Donald Trump was informed about the existence of the unverified allegations against him about Russian ties after last Friday's Intel briefing at Trump Tower on alleged Russian hacking, U.S. officials told NBC News.

A senior U.S. official said that it was FBI Director James Comey himself who pulled Trump aside after the briefing and spoke with him one-on-one about the so-called "dossier," 35 pages of memos prepared by a former British spy for an anti-Trump client prior to last year's election.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-s-comey-told-trump-about-russia-dossier-after-intel-n706416

 

[nsaspook]

OK, NBC is now saying Comey, himself, took Trump aside on Fri. (Jan 6th), after the briefing, and told him about the dossier of British memos:http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-s-comey-told-trump-about-russia-dossier-after-intel-n706416

That makes the news stories about Trump, the annex and source British dossier compatible.
They didn't use the 2 page annex in the briefing, Trump was never given the 2 page annex and Comey talked about 'dirt' from the "dossier" not from the annex. I guess this shows why leaks of this type (to CNN) are so irresponsible.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Trump was never given the 2 page annex...

There's actually nothing in my link that says or implies he wasn't given the addendum when Comey talked to him.

...and Comey talked about 'dirt' from the "dossier" not from the annex.

The addendum ("annex") was a two page synopsis of the dossier. They're therefore equally 'dirty'. One is just more detailed than the other.

I guess this shows why leaks of this type (to CNN) are so irresponsible.

Even if we stipulate for the sake of argument CNN was misinformed that he was given the short, soft version rather than the long hard version, the core information, that he was briefed on Fri. Jan 6th about the dossier, is intact.

 

[nsaspook]

Even if we stipulate for the sake of argument CNN was misinformed that he was given the short, soft version rather than the long hard version, the core information, that he was briefed on Fri. Jan 6th about the dossier, is intact.

I will stipulate that Comey talked about possible 'dirt' associated with these rumors but it was after the briefing.

"senior U.S. official said that it was FBI Director James Comey himself who pulled Trump aside after the briefing"

 

[zoobyshoe]

I will stipulate that Comey talked about possible 'dirt' associated with these rumors but it was after the briefing.

"senior U.S. official said that it was FBI Director James Comey himself who pulled Trump aside after the briefing"

Comey briefed Trump in the one-on-one after-briefing briefing, not in the main briefing. Those who assert Trump was not briefed about the synopsis in the Fri. briefing are referring to the main briefing. The after-briefing briefing was a separate briefing that also took place on Fri. Jan 6th right after the main briefing. Whether or not Comey used the synopsis (the after-dossier dossier) or the main dossier to brief Trump in the after-briefing briefing, is not revealed in the NBCnews link.

 

[mheslep]

Comey briefed Trump in the one-on-one after-briefing briefing...

NBC says, once again per annonymous US (i.e. Obama administration ) officials.

 

[zoobyshoe]

in our circles this looks and sounds like a pathetic, desperate smear campaign that just isn't working.

This is just me talking, but I think Trump's big mistake here is trying to defend himself from it as if it were what you say it is. What I mean by that, is that he is treating stuff in the dossier as allegations against him he has to defend himself from, instead of seeing it as a possibly accurate picture of how Russian officials are talking to each other about him for their own political purposes within the Russian government. It provides a lot of detail about their infighting he ought to be investigating as a possible way to manipulate them.

I'm almost finished reading it, and am surprised no journalists have pointed out that it is a lot less about Trump than you'd expect and more about Russian officials maneuvering against each other for status.

Atlantic did have this interesting article explaining how "Kompromat" is such an important part of Russian government:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/kompromat-trump-dossier/512891/

While it's very unlikely they have the described compromising tape of Trump, you can see from that article how one element of the Russian Govt. simply claiming it has such a tape would give it power and status in their intramural conflicts.

Some of the key players (aside from Putin, of course) described in the dossier by "sources close to...":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Medvedev
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Ivanov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Peskov

 

[Evo]

Posts deleted, thread closed.