What happens when the observer hears sounds from a super sonic source?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of a supersonic source of sound on an observer, particularly focusing on the perceived frequency and order of sound waves when the observer is moving away from the source or when the source is moving towards the observer. The scope includes theoretical considerations of sound wave behavior and Doppler effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when the observer moves away from the source at a speed greater than the speed of sound, the apparent frequency becomes negative, which raises questions about the interpretation of such a scenario.
  • Others argue that if the observer moves faster than sound away from the source, the sound waves would reach the observer in reverse order, suggesting a perception of the sound being played backwards.
  • A later reply discusses the scenario where the source is moving faster than sound towards a stationary observer, indicating that the observer would hear the sounds in regular order but at a reduced frequency due to the increased distance the waves must travel.
  • Some participants note that when the source moves faster than sound towards the observer, the formula for calculating the frequency may not apply, leading to confusion about how sound is perceived after the source passes the observer.
  • One participant suggests that the observer may hear two distinct sounds: one from the front, perceived as fast and played backwards, and another from behind, perceived in regular order but slower.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the behavior of sound waves from a supersonic source, particularly about the order and frequency of sounds perceived by the observer. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the implications of these scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the observer's speed relative to the speed of sound, the definitions of frequency in this context, and the mathematical steps involved in deriving the perceived frequencies.

arpon
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As we know, when the observer is moving away from the source, then the apparent frequency is,
##f_{observer} = f_{source} (\frac{v_{sound} - v_{observer}}{v_{sound}})##
But, if ##v_{observer} > v_{sound}## , ##f_{observer}## becomes negative.
 
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With sound waves being vibrations in air, if you move faster than sound away from the source, those pressure waves hit your eardrums in the reverse order. Windiness aside, the sound would be heard as being played backwards.
 
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jfizzix said:
With sound waves being vibrations in air, if you move faster than sound away from the source, those pressure waves hit your eardrums in the reverse order. Windiness aside, the sound would be heard as being played backwards.
And what it would be, if the observer is stationary and the source is moving faster than sound, i.e.
##f_{observer} = f_{source} (\frac {v_{sound}}{v_{sound} - v_{source}})## , and ##v_{source} > v_{sound}## ;
 
you would hear the sound in regular order:
The first pressure wave the source emitted would be the first thing that hits your eardrum, and the second would be the second, and so on

However, the sound would be slowed down:
The pressure waves would hit your eardrum less often because each time the wave has to travel a longer distance from the source at the same speed.
 
jfizzix said:
you would hear the sound in regular order:
The first pressure wave the source emitted would be the first thing that hits your eardrum, and the second would be the second, and so on

However, the sound would be slowed down:
The pressure waves would hit your eardrum less often because each time the wave has to travel a longer distance from the source at the same speed.
When the source is moving faster than sound and moving towards the observer, the source has to go ahead of the observer to reach sound to the observer. So, in this case, I think, the formula for the source coming to the observer is not applicable. Only, when the source is moving away the observer, the sound can be heard.
 
arpon said:
When the source is moving faster than sound and moving towards the observer, the source has to go ahead of the observer to reach sound to the observer.
Right, and after the super sonic source passed the stationary observer he would hear the previously played sounds in reverse order.

arpon said:
So, in this case, I think, the formula for the source coming to the observer is not applicable.
Why not?
 
A.T. said:
Right, and after the super sonic source passed the stationary observer he would hear the previously played sounds in reverse order.

Why not?
I think, the observer will hear two sounds, one coming from in front of him and the other coming from behind him.

upload_2015-1-20_15-59-28.png


Sound coming from in front of the observer (frequency ##f_1##) will be fast but played backward. And sound coming from behind the observer (frequency ##f_2##) will be slow but played in regular order.
##f_1 = f_{source} (\frac {v_{sound}}{v_{source} - v_{sound}})##
##f_2 = f_{source} (\frac {v_{sound}}{v_{source} + v_{sound}})##
And, look, for sufficient velocity of the source,##f_1## may be less than ##f_{source}## !
 

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