- #31
humanino
- 2,523
- 8
Moving to France to avoid a president is not a good idea anymoreEvo said:
What is it about George W. Bush
- Context: News
- Thread starter Jimmy Snyder
- Start date
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the reactions to George W. Bush's presidency, particularly focusing on the sentiments of outrage and betrayal expressed by some individuals regarding his reelection. Participants explore themes of American values, the implications of leaving the country as a form of protest, and the perceived hypocrisy of celebrities who threaten to leave but do not. The conversation touches on political engagement, the role of fear in shaping public opinion, and the significance of constitutional rights.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
- Meta-discussion
Main Points Raised
- Some participants express frustration with individuals who claim they will leave the country but remain, questioning the sincerity of such statements.
- Others argue that leaving can be seen as a form of peaceful protest, while some view it as a sign of weakness or hypocrisy.
- A few participants reflect on the impact of fear following 9/11 on public behavior and the willingness to sacrifice freedoms.
- There are discussions about the economic implications of Hollywood and celebrities on American culture and exports.
- Some participants emphasize the importance of political engagement and the need for diverse voices in the political discourse.
- Concerns are raised about the potential loss of rights, such as the right to bear arms, and what that would mean for American identity.
- Participants mention the perceived inadequacies of the U.S. healthcare system and the implications of high incarceration rates as critiques of American democracy.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
The discussion features multiple competing views, with no consensus reached on the value of leaving as a protest, the sincerity of those who threaten to leave, or the overall state of American values under Bush's presidency.
Contextual Notes
Participants reference the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, suggesting that interpretations of these documents may influence their views on protest and American identity. There is also mention of personal experiences and family ties that complicate the decision to leave the country.
- #32
quadraphonics
jaap de vries said:
Wait, in the first paragraph, you're talking about "fighting for your rights," but in the second this is equated to "fighting *against your own government* for your rights." And, even then, you seem to take "fight" to mean "declare war." To be honest, I think you need to either include the provisos from the beginning, or aknowledge that there are countless other examples of Americans fighting for their rights. The sufferage movement was one you skipped, as well as the movement against Prohibition. There are innumerable smaller examples beyond that, from the fights against the draft, to the opposition to McCarthyism, to the consumer rights movement.
jaap de vries said:
Funny, I seem to remember substantially more than 10% of Western countries participating in the invasion/occuption. Also, you may recall the Republicans getting hammered in the 2006 elections, and widespread expectations that this trend will continue this year.