What is meant by "the body is on the point of ...." in mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phrase "the body is on the point of ..." in mechanics, particularly in the context of constraint forces and the conditions under which a body transitions from constrained to unconstrained motion. Participants explore the implications of this terminology in various mechanical scenarios, such as slipping and toppling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the phrase relates to constraint forces, indicating the moment when these forces can no longer maintain the body's motion, such as when static friction reaches its limit or the normal contact force becomes zero.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial interpretation, reinforcing the idea that the equations of motion for constrained scenarios are used until the limiting case of a constraint force is reached.
  • A further contribution discusses similar phrases like "on the edge" or "on the brink," suggesting they convey a similar meaning regarding a critical change in motion.
  • One participant notes that plotting the motion of an object against time reveals an inflection point at the moment the constraint is broken, supporting the notion of a transitional "point" in motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the phrase in relation to constraint forces and the conditions for unconstrained motion, though the discussion remains exploratory without definitive conclusions.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the relevance of constraint forces primarily in higher-level mechanics contexts, indicating a potential limitation in the general understanding of the term outside of advanced studies.

etotheipi
I see this sort of wording a lot, for instance, we might say that the block is on the point of slipping or the ball is on the point of leaving the surface of the hill. My guess is that it's to do with constraint forces; that is, at the exact point where the constraint forces acting on a body can no longer constrain the motion of the body (perhaps because static friction has reached ##\mu N## or the normal contact force has reduced to zero), we say the body is on the point of doing something.

For instance, if a ball is rolling down a hill, there exists a normal contact constraint force (satisfying ##N \geqslant 0##) which adjusts its magnitude so that the ball remains on the surface - the constrained motion. But when this force reaches ##N=0##, if the velocity of the ball increases by ##dv## the normal force according to the constrained model would become negative - which evidently can't occur.

So my conclusion was that generally we write the equations of motion for the constrained motion (i.e. at rest, moving in a circle of fixed radius, moving with a platform etc.), and then substitute in the limiting case of a constraint force to solve for the conditions when the motion becomes unconstrained. Is this what is meant when we say something is on the point of e.g. slipping/toppling etc.?

I tried searching for references but the only mentions of constraint forces I could find were in the context of Lagrangian dynamics and other higher level mechanics. I don't know if the usage in that context is similar to what I've said above.
 
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That seems about right.
 
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PeroK said:
That seems about right.

Fair enough, thanks for your stamp of approval!
 
etotheipi said:
we might say that the block is on the point of slipping
etotheipi said:
So my conclusion was that generally we write the equations of motion for the constrained motion (i.e. at rest, moving in a circle of fixed radius, moving with a platform etc.), and then substitute in the limiting case of a constraint force to solve for the conditions when the motion becomes unconstrained. Is this what is meant when we say something is on the point of e.g. slipping/toppling etc.?
I also think that you have a good grasp of what the term entails. There are other similar terms that I can think of -- "On the edge", "On the brink", "On the precipice" that all can be used to indicate the point where something changes in a situation that causes a change in motion or whatever.

Maybe one reason for the terminology of "point" or "edge" etc., is that if you plot the motion of the object versus time, there is an inflection in that plot at that "point". Certainly if you plot the position as a function of time of an object resting on a floor with friction as you linearly increase the horizontal force on it, that function will have an inflection point as the threshold force is reached to break it free and start moving it horizontally... :smile:
 
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