What is the circuit desighn within op amp?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the internal structure and functioning of operational amplifiers (op amps), particularly focusing on the meaning of inverting and non-inverting inputs. Participants explore the complexity of op amp circuits and seek clarification on how these components operate within electronic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the meaning of inverting and non-inverting inputs and requests a simple explanation.
  • Another participant explains that a signal at the non-inverting input produces an output in phase, while a signal at the inverting input results in an output that is 180 degrees out of phase.
  • A participant asks for details about the internal structure of op amps and whether it is too complex for beginners to understand.
  • One participant shares a circuit diagram of the LM741 op amp, noting it contains 20 transistors, though not all are amplifiers, and suggests that the internal workings may not need to be fully understood for practical use.
  • Another participant discusses the amplification process, explaining how feedback through a resistor can limit amplification and likening the op amp to an 'idealized transistor'.
  • Links to external resources are provided for further reading on op amps and their applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the internal structure of op amps can be complex and that understanding the basic functionality is more important for practical applications. However, there is no consensus on how much detail beginners should focus on regarding the internal circuitry.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the necessity of understanding the internal workings of op amps, indicating a potential limitation in their foundational knowledge of electronics.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for first-year electronics students, educators in electronics, and hobbyists interested in understanding operational amplifiers and their applications in circuits.

Hyperspace2
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I am first year student 0f electronics and communication engineering.
I have a course called basic electronics.
I have already learn't bjt,jfet,mosfet,diff amplifier etc, now its turn of op amp.
And I can't move on without knowing what is within op amp. Pictures shows Triangle and +,- within it. What is the meaning of inverting and non inverting input? Whats the physical meaning. Anyone please help me explain in very simple language. English is not my first language. Thanks in advance.
 
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A signal fed into the + input (non-inverting) will produce an output signal that is in phase with the input signal. A signal fed into the - input (inverting) will produce an output signal that is 180 degrees out of phase with the input signal. This is for single ended operation, where the input signal is at one end and the other end is grounded.

If you take a closer look at how a discrete differential amplifier works, it might help.
 
Thanks user091024 for the reply and also thanks for explaining the meaning of inverting and non inverting input? Can you also explain the inner structure of op amp . Is the circuit inside the op amp too complicated that the begineers shouldn't try to focus at it.
 
http://www.circuitstoday.com/op-amps-operational-amplifiers
n:ANd9GcSZp9K5xL77nu01xzhsAYzie9v2N5523B7IA58ceg6-5rG3RBA&t=1&usg=__uzWaS4OuAJr3m3iIywGnnF18B_A=.png


http://www.edaboard.com/thread137646.html
92_1226159419.gif
 
Thanks Granpa. I got it
 
500px-OpAmpTransistorLevel_Colored_Labeled.svg.png


This is a circuit diagram of the components inside a LM741 opamp.
As you can see, it uses 20 transistors, although not all of them are being used as amplifiers.

It is probably sufficient to say that opamps have huge gains and you probably don't need to worry about exactly how they work internally.

You might like to read about op amps here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op_amp
That is where the above circuit comes from.
 
Last edited:
vk6kro said:
500px-OpAmpTransistorLevel_Colored_Labeled.svg.png


This is a circuit diagram of the components inside a LM741 opamp.
As you can see, it uses 20 transistors, although not all of them are being used as amplifiers.

It is probably sufficient to say that opamps have huge gains and you probably don't need to worry about exactly how they work internally.

You might like to read about op amps here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op_amp
That is where the above circuit comes from.

Thanks . The pics are really complicated for me though.
 
n:ANd9GcSZp9K5xL77nu01xzhsAYzie9v2N5523B7IA58ceg6-5rG3RBA&t=1&usg=__uzWaS4OuAJr3m3iIywGnnF18B_A=.png


the pic looks complicated but it isnt.
if each of the transistors gives 100 fold amplification then
the 2 together give 10,000 fold amplification.

But then you send part of the output back through a resistor (call it R) to the negative input and
thereby self-limit the amplification to 100 fold amplification.

Why would you do that?
I was told that it makes the op amp a sort of 'idealized transistor'.
A transistor that behaves more or less exactly the way you expect a transistor to behave.
It also allows you to precisely determine the amount of amplification by changing the value of R
 

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