What Is the Correct Approach to Solve This Differential Equation?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a differential equation of the form y'' - 4y' + 2y = 4 + sin(2x) - cos(2x). Participants are exploring methods to find both homogeneous and particular solutions, with a focus on the challenges faced in determining the particular solution.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to solve the homogeneous part of the equation and expresses difficulty in finding the particular solution. They discuss using the variational method and express uncertainty about the integration process involved.
  • Some participants suggest alternative methods, such as the trial function method of undetermined coefficients, and question the complexity of the original approach.
  • There are inquiries about the simplification of integrals and the correctness of the integration steps taken by the original poster.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing suggestions and alternative methods. Some guidance has been offered regarding simplifications and integration techniques, but there is no explicit consensus on the best approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster is new to calculus and is using a method introduced in their course, which may differ from more traditional approaches. There is also mention of potential errors in the integration process that need to be addressed.

MattiasMath
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Homework Statement


y'' - 4y' + 2y = 4 + sin⁡(2x) - cos⁡(2x)

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



I have solved both the homogenous solutions:
Ae^{(2+\sqrt{2})x}
Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}

And I think they should be right.
I ran into problems trying to figure the particular solutions out though.

After calculating the wronskians I ended up with the first particular solution looking like this:
∫\frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}(4+sin(2x)-cos(2x))}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}}dx

I'm not sure what to do with this integral, I don't think that integration by parts would help. (The 4 in (4+sin(2x)-cos(2x)) is giving me a hard time getting anywhere)

Does anyone see what I could be doing wrong?

If it's not understandable what I've done I could post my full solution, but I'm finding it a bit hard to format everything properly on here. (I have my full solution in a word document that I could attach if anyone is interested)

(I hope my termology is somewhat understandable, I don't normally deal with math in english. If any of my words seem out of place and you can't understand what I mean, please let me know and I'll try to explain!
 
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Mattiasmath, it is not sure that you did something wrong, but this variational method is rather complicated, I make errors again and again myself. The trial function method of undetermined coefficients is much easier: Try the particular solution in the form Yp=A+Bsin(2x)+Ccos(2x).

ehild
 
ehild said:
Mattiasmath, it is not sure that you did something wrong, but this variational method is rather complicated, I make errors again and again myself. The trial function method of undetermined coefficients is much easier: Try the particular solution in the form Yp=A+Bsin(2x)+Ccos(2x).

ehild

I'm on my first calculus course and this method is the only one I've been introduced to. (According to the prof, the method our book mentions is obsolete compared to this one) I'll have a look at the method the book describes anyway, since I suspect that's the one you're suggesting that I use. Hopefully I'll be able to solve it with that.
Thanks!
 
MattiasMath said:

Homework Statement


y'' - 4y' + 2y = 4 + sin⁡(2x) - cos⁡(2x)

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



I have solved both the homogenous solutions:
Ae^{(2+\sqrt{2})x}
Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}

And I think they should be right.
I ran into problems trying to figure the particular solutions out though.

After calculating the wronskians I ended up with the first particular solution looking like this:
∫\frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}(4+sin(2x)-cos(2x))}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}}dx

I'm not sure what to do with this integral, I don't think that integration by parts would help. (The 4 in (4+sin(2x)-cos(2x)) is giving me a hard time getting anywhere)

Does anyone see what I could be doing wrong?

If it's not understandable what I've done I could post my full solution, but I'm finding it a bit hard to format everything properly on here. (I have my full solution in a word document that I could attach if anyone is interested)

(I hope my termology is somewhat understandable, I don't normally deal with math in english. If any of my words seem out of place and you can't understand what I mean, please let me know and I'll try to explain!

First, you can simplify \frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}} to the form C e^{cx}, for some constants C and c. Now you have \int C e^{cx}[4 + \sin(2x) -\cos(2x)] \,dx. What is stopping you from writing this as 4C \int e^{cx}\, dx + C \int e^{cx} \sin(2x)\,dx - C \int e^{cx} \cos(2x)\, dx?

RGV
 
Ray Vickson said:
First, you can simplify \frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}} to the form C e^{cx}, for some constants C and c. Now you have \int C e^{cx}[4 + \sin(2x) -\cos(2x)] \,dx. What is stopping you from writing this as 4C \int e^{cx}\, dx + C \int e^{cx} \sin(2x)\,dx - C \int e^{cx} \cos(2x)\, dx?

RGV

Thanks for your input!
What I did was simplifying
\int \frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}(4+sin(2x)-cos(2x))}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}}dx
to
C(4\int e^{ax}dx + \int e^{ax}sin(2x)dx - \int e^{ax}cos(2x)dx )
Where a = -2-\sqrt{2}

I then started integrating the 3 integrals. First one was no problem, and I thought the second one was rather easy too. However when I checked my answer on wolfram, it seems like I'm way off. This is what I did:
2w2ngbb.png


Does anyone see what I've done wrong?
 
Last edited:
MattiasMath said:
Thanks for your input!
What I did was simplifying
\int \frac{Be^{(2-\sqrt{2})x}(4+sin(2x)-cos(2x))}{-2\sqrt{2}ABe^{4x}}dx
to
C(4\int e^{ax}dx + \int e^{ax}sin(2x)dx - \int e^{ax}cos(2x)dx )
Where a = -2-sqrt{2}

I then started integrating the 3 integrals. First one was no problem, and I thought the second one was rather easy too. However when I checked my answer on wolfram, it seems like I'm way off. This is what I did:
2w2ngbb.png


Does anyone see what I've done wrong?

\int(e^{ax}\sin(2x)\,dx = \frac{1}{a} e^{ax} \sin(2x) - \frac{2}{a} \int e^{ax} \cos(2x)\,dx. so you started off making a basic error and it went on from there. Anyway, you don't need to check using Wolfram; all you need to do is differentiate your answer to see if it reproduces the integrand. You should always perform such a check whenever possible.

RGV
 

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