What is the equation for Cp in terms of R for an adiabatic charging process?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the first law of thermodynamics to an adiabatic charging process involving a cylinder and piston system. Participants explore the relationships between pressure, temperature, and enthalpy in the context of a homework problem related to thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a 250mm diameter insulated cylinder with a piston and a spring, connected to a high-pressure air source.
  • Participants discuss the application of the first law of thermodynamics for an open system, particularly in an adiabatic process.
  • There is a debate about whether to use the equation P1/T1 = P2/T2, with some arguing it is inappropriate due to volume changes during the process.
  • One participant suggests that the internal energy of the system changes as mass enters, prompting further discussion on the correct form of the first law applicable to the situation.
  • Another participant proposes an equation involving work done on the surroundings and the enthalpy of the air entering the system.
  • Participants calculate the final pressure of the air in the cylinder and discuss the relationship between pressure, volume, and the spring constant.
  • There is a clarification on the relationship between enthalpy and temperature of the air entering the system compared to that in the mains pipe.
  • Participants derive equations for PV and U, leading to a discussion about the thermodynamic function represented by U + PV.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally engage in a collaborative exploration of the problem, but there are multiple competing views on the appropriate equations to use and the implications of the adiabatic process. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to apply the first law in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the applicability of certain equations due to changing volumes and the nature of the process. There are also unresolved mathematical steps related to the derivation of work done and the final expressions for pressure and enthalpy.

  • #31
Chestermiller said:
As you responded in a private conversation: W=[kx2/2+PaAx]. So now what do we get if we substitute this into our equation:
$$m(h-h_{in})=-W+kx^2+P_aAx$$
Chet
m(h−hin)=−[kx2/2+PaAx]+kx2+PaAx ?
 
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  • #32
Tomdickjerry said:
m(h−hin)=−[kx2/2+PaAx]+kx2+PaAx ?
Collect terms?
 
  • #33
Chestermiller said:
Collect terms?
m(h−hin)=1/2kx2?
 
  • #34
Correct. Pretty simple, huh?

This is all that needs to be done on the right hand side of the equation. I'll be back in a little while to get you started working on the left hand side of the equation. Right now, I'm on my iPhone.
 
  • #35
Chestermiller said:
Correct. Pretty simple, huh?

This is all that needs to be done on the right hand side of the equation. I'll be back in a little while to get you started working on the left hand side of the equation. Right now, I'm on my iPhone.
alright thanks! for the left side do i just use cv(t2-t1) i figured since the it isn't constant pressure process
 
  • #36
Tomdickjerry said:
alright thanks! for the left side do i just use cv(t2-t1) i figured since the it isn't constant pressure process
Actually, no, but you're on the right track. The molar enthalpy of a pure single phase substance can be expressed uniquely as a function of temperature T and pressure P: h = h(T,P). The molar heat capacity Cp is, by definition, the partial derivative of h with respect to T at constant P:
$$C_p\equiv \left(\frac{\partial h}{\partial T}\right)_P$$For an ideal gas, molar enthalpy is a function only of temperature T. So the partial derivative becomes a total derivative: $$\frac{dh}{dT }=C_p$$For an ideal gas, this equation applies even if the pressure is not constant. The quantity ##C_p## is called the heat capacity at constant pressure only because, in measuring ##C_p## experimentally, not only is the change in enthalpy dh at constant pressure equal to ##C_pdT##, but so also is the amount of heat added dQ. So, under constant pressure conditions, ##C_p## can be measured experimentally by directly determining the amount of heat added. If the pressure is not constant, then dQ is not equal to ##C_pdT## but dh (for an ideal gas) is still equal to CpdT.

So, since for an ideal gas, dh is always equal to ##C_pdT##, irrespective of whether the pressure is constant, we have:
$$(h-h_{in})=C_p(T-T_{in})$$where h is the final molar enthalpy of the air in the cylinder, ##h_{in}## is the molar enthalpy of the air in the tank, T is the final temperature of the air in the cylinder, and ##T_{in}## is the temperature of the air in the tank (27 C = 300 K).

Now m is the final number of moles of air in the cylinder. From the ideal gas law, please (algebraically) express m as a function of PV, R, and T, where R is the universal gas constant.

Air is a diatomic gas. In the ideal gas region, how is the molar heat capacity ##C_p## of a diatomic ideal gas related to the ideal gas constant R?

Chet
 
  • #37
Chestermiller said:
Actually, no, but you're on the right track. The molar enthalpy of a pure single phase substance can be expressed uniquely as a function of temperature T and pressure P: h = h(T,P). The molar heat capacity Cp is, by definition, the partial derivative of h with respect to T at constant P:
$$C_p\equiv \left(\frac{\partial h}{\partial T}\right)_P$$For an ideal gas, molar enthalpy is a function only of temperature T. So the partial derivative becomes a total derivative: $$\frac{dh}{dT }=C_p$$For an ideal gas, this equation applies even if the pressure is not constant. The quantity ##C_p## is called the heat capacity at constant pressure only because, in measuring ##C_p## experimentally, not only is the change in enthalpy dh at constant pressure equal to ##C_pdT##, but so also is the amount of heat added dQ. So, under constant pressure conditions, ##C_p## can be measured experimentally by directly determining the amount of heat added. If the pressure is not constant, then dQ is not equal to ##C_pdT## but dh (for an ideal gas) is still equal to CpdT.

So, since for an ideal gas, dh is always equal to ##C_pdT##, irrespective of whether the pressure is constant, we have:
$$(h-h_{in})=C_p(T-T_{in})$$where h is the final molar enthalpy of the air in the cylinder, ##h_{in}## is the molar enthalpy of the air in the tank, T is the final temperature of the air in the cylinder, and ##T_{in}## is the temperature of the air in the tank (27 C = 300 K).

Now m is the final number of moles of air in the cylinder. From the ideal gas law, please (algebraically) express m as a function of PV, R, and T, where R is the universal gas constant.

Air is a diatomic gas. In the ideal gas region, how is the molar heat capacity ##C_p## of a diatomic ideal gas related to the ideal gas constant R?

Chet
m=pv/rt.
i don't know what a diatomic gas is it wasn't covered in my syllabus but I am assuming you're referring to the k=1.4?
 
  • #38
Tomdickjerry said:
m=pv/rt.
i don't know what a diatomic gas is it wasn't covered in my syllabus but I am assuming you're referring to the k=1.4?
Yes. So, if ##\frac{C_p}{C_v}=1.4## and ##C_p-C_v=R## (you are familiar with this equation, correct?), what is the equation for Cp expressed exclusively in terms of R?
 

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