What is the field density and mmf for a solenoid with given parameters?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the field density and magnetomotive force (mmf) for a solenoid with specific parameters. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of electromagnetism, particularly in the context of an electromagnetic piston engine design.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in calculating the field density (B) and mmf for a solenoid, providing various parameters including the number of turns, diameter, resistance, voltage, and length.
  • Another participant inquires about the application of the solenoid, indicating a need for context.
  • A participant describes their design of an electromagnetic piston engine, detailing the use of electromagnets and permanent magnets to achieve specific piston speeds and forces.
  • There is a discussion about the flexibility of changing the number of windings in the solenoid and the challenges faced in using the equations related to magnetic fields.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the feasibility of using a 35,000-volt ignition coil for this application, questioning the understanding of magnetic circuits and the characteristics of ignition coils.
  • Another participant reiterates the role of the copper coil and iron core in generating a magnetic field, emphasizing the need for calculations related to field density to generate electromotive force.
  • Questions arise regarding the waveform characteristics of the 35kV pulse when driving spark plugs versus a coil inductance.
  • There is a suggestion that magnetic field strength is more closely related to current rather than voltage, hinting at a potential misunderstanding in the calculations being attempted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of the proposed electromagnetic engine design and the methods for calculating the necessary parameters. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of using a 35,000-volt ignition coil or the correct approach to determine the magnetic field density.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions and parameters that may affect calculations, including the nature of the current generated by the ignition coil and the specific characteristics of the magnetic circuit involved. The discussion reflects a range of expertise, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the equations and concepts involved.

magnetic-man
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How do I calculate the field density, and mmf magneto motive force. I have the number of turns 750. The dia is 2.5 cm. The wire is #24 coated, copper magnet wire with a resistance of .025 ohms/cm/m. The voltage is 35,000v at 45 amps. the length of the solenoid is 10cm. the thickness is 50mm. the motive distance is 25mm to 9.5cm The duration of magnetic pulse is .10/sec. The core is iron 1018. how much mmf at the end of the rod and what is the field density at
25mm and what is it at 9.5 cm? I am having trouble finding B. I am great with mechanics but formula's forget it. I tried plugging the numbers into the formulas I have, but It asks for B when I am trying to find B? Thought maybe you genius' could help. Thanks
 
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What's the application?
 
Ive designed an electromagnetic piston engine. I am affixing electromagnets concentrically to the cylinder bore of a 4 cylinder automobile engine. The pistons inside the cilynders are modified with a perminant magnetic N42 face. Polarity is +. The electromagnets are made of iron 1018 and act as the magnetic generator rod. The copper magnet wire is wound around the 25mm stem of the generator rod 750times.(starting point) I will excite the windings with 35,000 volts from an auto ingnition coil and generate a +polarity in the end of the rod which is closest to the piston face. I plan to follow the same timing sequence as the ECU of the automobile and intermittantly drive the N42 faced pistons away from the magnetic force down into the cylinder. I need to attain a piston speed of 16m/s. The piston weighs .76kg and requires a 6N force to move it. Basically the electromagnet is swapped in place of the spark plug. So the voltage and the duration are not changeable just the number of turns of wire.
 
Well actually they are changeable but not as easily as adding or subtracting windings. The number of windings can go up quite a bit, there's plenty of room for it. The equation I am using asks for B over 2 to be multiplyed all the brackets off work done previously. Whats B ? Heres what I've got.
B {_________( X+T)______ - ___________X________}
2 [R*2+(X+T)*2]*1/2 [R*2 + X*2]*1/2
The asterics show where the next number should be.
Ie; R is squared. The lower case or divisor brackets are to the power of 1/2. One half. I've never done it like that before. This is why I am asking for help. Believe me I've tried its just out of my depth. I am a mechanical designer... But its not helping me much here. The formula gets squished in this little box The two sets of brackets go under the X+T and the X It begins with b over two. So if you don't know b how can you use it in the eqation? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
magnetic-man said:
I will excite the windings with 35,000 volts from an auto ingnition coil
This will not work.
What creates a magnetic field?
What are the output characteristics of an auto ignition coil besides the peak voltage?

Why would you want to try this?

Normal electric motors are constructed the way they are for reasons.
You need to understand the concept of magnetic circuit.
 
The copper coil has 35,000v current running through it. This current is distributed to each electromagnet intermittantly. It is wound around an iron core. The iron core becomes an electromagnet. A field of magnetic energy runs alog its axis out the ends creating a north and south pole. It returns through the air. This is my circuit. This energy can do work. I am asking for help calculating the field desnsity at one of the poles. The reason? To generate an electromotive force. Electric motors draw a lot of current. Under load they draw a lot more. A constant drain. This is not good for batteries. I have another electrical source besides batteries but the answers I need are based on battery capabilities. Can you help? Thanks
 
magnetic-man said:
The copper coil has 35,000v current running through it. This current is distributed to each electromagnet intermittantly. It is wound around an iron core. The iron core becomes an electromagnet. A field of magnetic energy runs alog its axis out the ends creating a north and south pole. It returns through the air. This is my circuit. This energy can do work. I am asking for help calculating the field desnsity at one of the poles. The reason? To generate an electromotive force. Electric motors draw a lot of current. Under load they draw a lot more. A constant drain. This is not good for batteries. I have another electrical source besides batteries but the answers I need are based on battery capabilities. Can you help? Thanks

What does your 35kV waveform look like when driving just spark plugs? What does it look like when you try to drive a coil inductance with it?
 
The primary wave has a spike @ 88*deg. starting at .009 and the secondary wave ending at .012 it peaks at 730 The electro magnet is a sine wave of unknow feq. I am not a pro at this. what numbers do you need to determine B?
 
Any idea how much current is generated in your 35kV pulse?

Magnetic field is related to current not voltage. <gentle hint...>
 

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