What is the hierarchy of time: Δt, Δs, and Δτ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hierarchy of different types of time—Δt, Δs, and Δτ—as presented in a textbook. Participants seek to understand the origins and implications of this hierarchy, which includes coordinate time, spacetime interval, and proper time, within the context of physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a hierarchy of time types: Δt ≥ Δs ≥ Δτ, seeking clarification on its origin.
  • Another participant suggests that the hierarchy assumes a specific signature and units, questioning the interpretation of Δs and Δτ as potentially equivalent for timelike intervals.
  • It is noted that proper time equals the spacetime interval only when measured by an inertial observer, prompting further inquiry into the context of the textbook's definitions.
  • There is a suggestion to derive the hierarchy by writing down the expressions for the different intervals.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the terminology used, indicating potential misinterpretations of proper time and its relation to paths taken.
  • A request is made for physical examples to illustrate the inequalities presented in the hierarchy.
  • There is a question regarding the specific textbook referenced, indicating a desire for more context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the hierarchy or the definitions of the terms involved. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the definitions of proper time and spacetime intervals, as well as the dependence on the choice of inertial frames and paths taken.

Bristlethorn
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Hi, all.
My textbook presents an hierarchy of the three types of time, but doesn't back it up or explain where it came from.

According to it,

Δt ≥ Δs ≥ Δτ

Where
- Δt is the coordinate time between two events as observed in an inertial frame,
- Δs is the spacetime interval between two events,
- Δτ is a proper time between two events.

Can anyone explain where this hierarchy comes from?
Thanks,

Bristlethorn
 
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You seem to be assuming a +--- signature and units such that c=1 (that is, ##\Delta s^2=\Delta t^2-\Delta x^2-\Delta y^2-\Delta z^2##). I would have said that Δs and Δτ were the same thing, at least for timelike intervals, in that context. Perhaps there's some more context provided about what Δs and Δτ mean to your textbook? And which textbook, by the way?

But Δt is obviously greater than or equal to the other two from the definition of the interval - see the expression in brackets above.
 
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Proper time equals the spacetime interval between two events only when the proper time is measured by an inertial observer.

To see this hierarchy: write down the three expressions for the different intervals. What do you get?
 
haushofer said:
Proper time equals the spacetime interval between two events only when the proper time is measured by an inertial observer.
That's why I was asking for context. I interpreted the "proper time between two events" without qualification as the proper time along a straight line. You seem to be interpreting it as the proper time along an arbitrary path, in which case, I agree.

Maybe my terminology is letting me down.
 
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Can you think of a physical example demonstrating the left inequality? the right inequality?
 
Bristlethorn said:
My textbook

Which textbook?
 

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