What is the Limit of a Convergent Series with Increasing Upper Bound?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around Riemann integrability and properties of functions, particularly focusing on integrals involving functions defined at rational and irrational points, as well as series and limits. Participants explore the implications of Riemann integrability and the behavior of specific integrals and series.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of a function being Riemann integrable when it is defined to be zero at all rational points. Questions arise about the behavior of the function at irrational points and the use of density of rationals in the reals.
  • There is an exploration of the existence of integrals for functions defined as series, with participants questioning the continuity and evaluation of these integrals.
  • Some participants seek hints for proving limits involving oscillatory functions and express uncertainty about the application of integral theorems.
  • Questions about specific series and their convergence are raised, with participants looking for clarification and hints on manipulation of summands.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problems, offering insights and suggestions for approaches. Some have provided intuitive guidance regarding the properties of Riemann integrability, while others are still seeking clarity on specific proofs and manipulations. There is a mix of understanding and confusion, indicating a productive exploration of the topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note constraints related to the definitions and properties of functions, as well as the challenges posed by the nature of the integrals and series being discussed. There is mention of reliance on theorems that may not be fully recalled, indicating a need for further exploration of foundational concepts.

pakkman
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1. If f is Riemann integrable from a to b, and for every rational number r, f(r)=0, then show that the integral from a to b of f(x) is 0.

The problem with this question is that you don't know what f is at an irrational. I know that I'm probably supposed to use that rationals are dense in R, but other than that, I'm not sure.

2. Let f(x)= sigma sin nx/(n-1)! where sigma is the sum from n=1 to infinity. Show that the int f(x)dx exists (Riemann integral is from 0 to pi), and evaluate.

So, I guess I show that the integral exists because f(x) is pointwise continuous? I'm really confused on this question, and how I can evaluate it.

3. What's a relatively straigt-forward way of proving that if f is riemann integrable, then lim n-> infinity of int f(x) cosnx dx =0, where the integral is evaluated from a to b? Any hints?
 
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pakkman said:
1. If f is Riemann integrable from a to b, and for every rational number r, f(r)=0, then show that the integral from a to b of f(x) is 0.

The problem with this question is that you don't know what f is at an irrational. I know that I'm probably supposed to use that rationals are dense in R, but other than that, I'm not sure.
You probably also need to use the fact that f is Riemann integrable on [a, b].

2. Let f(x)= sigma sin nx/(n-1)! where sigma is the sum from n=1 to infinity. Show that the int f(x)dx exists (Riemann integral is from 0 to pi), and evaluate.

So, I guess I show that the integral exists because f(x) is pointwise continuous? I'm really confused on this question, and how I can evaluate it.
Cast rigor aside for a moment; try to evaluate this integral naively.

3. What's a relatively straigt-forward way of proving that if f is riemann integrable, then lim n-> infinity of int f(x) cosnx dx =0, where the integral is evaluated from a to b? Any hints?
The first thing I notice is that cos nx oscillates very quickly when n is big. Also, I strongly suspect you are in the "interchanging limits" section of your course...

Actually, before I did any serious work on this problem, I would do a quick search for a theorem that would prove this statement. There are a lot of useful integral theorems I cannot remember, and this smells like the kind of thing that might be proven by one of them.
 
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I got 3 and I got part of 2. Is sigma (-1)^n/n! (sum from 0 to infinity) -e^-1? I vaguely remember this, but not sure about the proof...

I'm still really stumped on question 1. Can someone clarify?

I'm also trying to figure out the value of lim n->infinity of sigma k/(n^2+k^2) where the sum is from k=0 to k=2n. I guess I have to do some manipulation of the summand quantity, but I'd really appreciate a hint.
 
For f to be Riemann integrable, the least upper bound of step functions less than f must have area equal to the greatest lower bound of step functions greater than f.

I would suggest you start by looking at functions like f(r)=0 if r is rational, and 1 if r is irrational. Try finding what the upper and lower integrals of f are there, and you'll start to get an intuitive feel for why the integral must be zero for it to exist
 
Office_Shredder said:
For f to be Riemann integrable, the least upper bound of step functions less than f must have area equal to the greatest lower bound of step functions greater than f.

I would suggest you start by looking at functions like f(r)=0 if r is rational, and 1 if r is irrational. Try finding what the upper and lower integrals of f are there, and you'll start to get an intuitive feel for why the integral must be zero for it to exist

Thanks... it helps intuitively, but I'm having a little trouble with a formal proof. I'll keep working on it.

Can someone help me on lim n->infinity of sigma k/(n^2+k^2) where the sum is from k=0 to k=2n.? I can't seem to simplify it. I know it converges (from Matlab), and it really depends on the upper value of k (whether it's 2n, or 3n, or 4n, etc.)
 

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