What is the Locus of Complex Numbers in an Ellipse?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding the properties of an ellipse defined by the equation |z-2|+|z-4|=10 on the Argand diagram, including the coordinates of its center and the lengths of its major and minor axes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the interpretation of the equation in terms of distances to the foci and the properties of ellipses. There are attempts to derive the coordinates of the center and the endpoints of the axes, with some questioning the validity of their approaches and calculations.

Discussion Status

Several participants have provided hints and corrections regarding the interpretation of the ellipse's properties. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationships between the axes and the foci, with some participants expressing uncertainty about their findings and seeking further clarification.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention a lack of familiarity with ellipses and their properties, which may affect their confidence in the discussion. There is also a reference to external resources for further study on conics and eccentricity.

Mentallic
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Homework Statement


The curve on the Argand diagram for which
[tex]|z-2|+|z-4|=10[/tex]
is an ellipse. Find the co-ordinates of its centre and the lengths of its major and minor axes.


Homework Equations


[tex]z=x+iy[/tex]


The Attempt at a Solution


I could only find the centre by using common sense in a way: ([itex]\frac{2+4}{2}[/itex],0) = (3,0)
No idea how to answer the second part though.
 
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Mentallic said:
The curve on the Argand diagram for which
[tex]|z-2|+|z-4|=10[/tex]
is an ellipse. Find the co-ordinates of its centre and the lengths of its major and minor axes.

Hi Mentallic! :smile:

Hint: the major axis is obviously along the real axis,

so the ends of the major axis are also, and the ends of the minor axis are on a line parallel to the imaginary axis :wink:
 
You can interpret |z- a| as the distance from z to a. An ellipse has the property that the total distance from a point on the ellipse to the two foci is a constant. In other words |z- 2|+ |z- 4|= 10 tells you that the foci of the ellipse are 2 and 4.
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Mentallic! :smile:

Hint: the major axis is obviously along the real axis,

so the ends of the major axis are also, and the ends of the minor axis are on a line parallel to the imaginary axis :wink:

Yes I realized that too :smile: but the distances to these end-points...?

If I were to take a stab at it, I'd go about it like this:

[tex]\sqrt{(x-2)^2+y^2}+\sqrt{(x-4)^2+y^2}=10[/tex]

where y=0 since end-points are real.

Therefore, [tex]x-2+x-4=10[/tex]
x=8

So, distance 8 from centres of each modulus.

[tex](2-8,0) = (-6,0)[/tex] and
[tex](4+8,0) = (12,0)[/tex]

Is this a legitimate approach?

Similarly for the minor axes:

x=3 since they lie on the perpendicular bisector of (2,0) and (4,0)

Hence, [tex]\sqrt{1+y^2}+\sqrt{1+y^2}=10[/tex]

[tex]y=\pm 2\sqrt{6}[/tex]

So I'm guessing the minor end-points are [tex](3,2\sqrt{6}) (3,-2\sqrt{6})[/tex] ?

Once again, this is a total guess so please correct me where I'm wrong.
 
HallsofIvy said:
You can interpret |z- a| as the distance from z to a. An ellipse has the property that the total distance from a point on the ellipse to the two foci is a constant. In other words |z- 2|+ |z- 4|= 10 tells you that the foci of the ellipse are 2 and 4.

So the centre of the ellipse is (3,0) and has focii at (2,0) and (4,0).

So for the general cartesian form of an ellipse: [tex]\frac{x^2}{a^2}+\frac{y^2}{b^2}=1[/tex]
[tex]ae=1[/tex] where e=eccentricity.

I'm lost from here...
 
Hi Mentallic! :smile:

(have a square-root: √ :wink:)
Mentallic said:
[tex]\sqrt{(x-2)^2+y^2}+\sqrt{(x-4)^2+y^2}=10[/tex]

where y=0 since end-points are real.

Therefore, [tex]x-2+x-4=10[/tex]
x=8

Yes, and now just say "so 8 is one end of the major axis"

… and then find the other end by using the "opposite value" of the ||s.

… So I'm guessing the minor end-points are [tex](3,2\sqrt{6}) (3,-2\sqrt{6})[/tex] ?

(why is that a guess? :confused:)

Yes, that's fine, except you mean 3 ±2(√6)i :smile:
 
Mentallic said:
So the centre of the ellipse is (3,0) and has focii at (2,0) and (4,0).

So for the general cartesian form of an ellipse: [tex]\frac{x^2}{a^2}+\frac{y^2}{b^2}=1[/tex]
[tex]ae=1[/tex] where e=eccentricity.

I'm lost from here...
For an ellipse, [itex]c^2= a^2- b^2[/itex] where a and b are the distances from the center to the vertices and c is the distance from the center to the focus. So you know that [itex]a^2- b^2= 1[/itex].
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Mentallic! :smile:

(have a square-root: √ :wink:)


Yes, and now just say "so 8 is one end of the major axis"

… and then find the other end by using the "opposite value" of the ||s.



(why is that a guess? :confused:)

Yes, that's fine, except you mean 3 ±2(√6)i :smile:

Thanks for the correction. I also took on a more geometric approach and found half the minor axis to be [tex]\sqrt{5^2-1}=2\sqrt{6}[/tex] through an isosceles triangle and the pythagorean theorem which supported my algebraic result.

HallsofIvy said:
For an ellipse, [itex]c^2= a^2- b^2[/itex] where a and b are the distances from the center to the vertices and c is the distance from the center to the focus. So you know that [itex]a^2- b^2= 1[/itex].
Sorry, but I haven't studied ellipses much at all. I remember a few general results but don't know their significance and I'm once again unsure what to do with this relationship of [itex]a^2-b^2=1[/itex]
 
Mentallic said:
Sorry, but I haven't studied ellipses much at all. I remember a few general results but don't know their significance and I'm once again unsure what to do with this relationship of [itex]a^2-b^2=1[/itex]

Hi Mentallic! :smile:

Start by looking at the PF Library pages on conic and eccentricity :wink:
 

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