What is the most terrifying thing in this person's room?

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The discussion centers around a bookshelf that has been poorly assembled, with several shelves installed upside-down. Participants express concern about its stability, particularly due to its placement in front of a window, which poses a risk of toppling. There are debates about the structural integrity of the bookshelf, with some arguing that the back panel is crucial for stability, while others believe it offers minimal support. Suggestions are made for correcting the assembly, including using contact paper to disguise the upside-down shelves or replacing nails with screws for better stability. The conversation also touches on the challenges of moving such furniture when loaded with books, emphasizing the importance of proper assembly and securing tall bookshelves against walls to prevent accidents. Overall, the thread combines humor with practical advice on furniture assembly and safety.
Pengwuino
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Veto1024/P1010029.jpg

Yup... I am fairly certain it is the most terrifying thing I've had in my room...

note the errors in construction.
 
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Physics news on Phys.org
And if anyone knows what that laminate is and where I could find some to apply... please let me know so i don't feel like a total idiot.
 
you've got so many upside down shelves you should turn the whole thing upside down and you'd be closer to correct.
 
you have the same poker set on the top shelf as me:approve:
 
:smile: The good news is that the way those things are built, it really won't matter if a shelf is upside-down in terms of being able to hold what it's supposed to hold. It'll just look funny.

The more frightening thing I see is its location, right in front of a window! :eek: A bookshelf that tall should be up against a wall, and anchored to the wall so it doesn't topple onto you.
 
How much does that physics text on the left weigh O___O
 
I like your wall paper.
Just Kidding! :biggrin:
 
Jelfish, you have to put all the heavy books on the top, not the bottom. You are safe to about 3x the rated loading. I figure its got a safety factor of 3.0
 
I just noticed how dirty your carpet is...
 
  • #10
cyrusabdollahi said:
Jelfish, you have to put all the heavy books on the top, not the bottom. You are safe to about 3x the rated loading. I figure its got a safety factor of 3.0

Are you confusing species again? :confused:
 
  • #11
Ahhhhh! Man not again!
 
  • #12
That thing is going to kill you!
 
  • #13
Seems like bad Feng Shui to put the bookshelves in front of the window.
 
  • #14


I didn't come on here to have my interior decorating skills mocked
 
  • #15
It's a lot cleaner than most bedroom pictures I see online.

From what I see anyways. He might've crammed everything on the other side of the room, so he can look good on PF. :eek:
 
  • #16
JasonRox said:
It's a lot cleaner than most bedroom pictures I see online.
From what I see anyways. He might've crammed everything on the other side of the room, so he can look good on PF. :eek:

You should see what happens when that camera moves about 30 degrees to the right :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
 
  • #17
Pengwuino said:
I didn't come on here to have my interior decorating skills mocked
Oh, right, sorry, forgive us. :redface: You came on here to have your building and instruction following skills mocked. :biggrin:

I guess if you don't want to take it apart and turn the upside-down shelves right-side-up, you could get contact paper in a color that would match your room and cover the shelves so nobody can tell that some are wrong-side-up. :rolleyes:
 
  • #18
Please, never set up your own lab experiments, EVER. This is why you do physics and not mechanical engineering. Just read the theory in the instructions. Let the qualified engineers do the real grunt work.
 
  • #19
Pengwuino said:
You should see what happens when that camera moves about 30 degrees to the right :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

What was harder...

...making the bookshelf?

...or...

... making space for the bookshelf? :biggrin:
 
  • #20
I know those shelves. I've put them together hundreds of times back when I put together store displays. Don't they have the quick connect cams so you can easily take it apart? Oh but you probably used all the nails putting the back on didn't you?
I can put those shelves together in about 4 minutes, so grab your pliers pull out the nails in the back and do the job right.
 
  • #21
How can i just rip the nails out? They are nailed in!
 
  • #22
Pengwuino said:
How can i just rip the nails out? They are nailed in!
If they're finishing nails and have no heads, you're screwed. hahah :redface: sorry[/size]

I made the same bookcase! I don't know what happened to it, I think it got lost in a move years ago.

I don't remember it having any nails, it was all screws and those little plastic doohickeys that go into the holes.
 
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  • #23
Pengwuino said:
How can i just rip the nails out? They are nailed in!

Actually, try to pull the boards off of the other boards... The nails can't possibly hold it that well... That or learn something from the magnet thread.
 
  • #24
They're screws in the sides on that style, not the cams. Cams usually are used for the tops of things like desks and utility carts (can you tell I've put more than a few of these things together in my life? I've been the "some assembly required" assembler since my early teenage years.) As for the back, just rip it back off...the cardboard will pop off around those tiny nail heads. Bang those nails in flush so they aren't in the way (it's not worth the effort to remove them), pick up a package of wire nails from the hardware store (they're a little smaller than the ones it comes with, but close enough...or else if you have one nail to bring with you, you can match it up to the right size), and after you've turned everything the right way, just nail the back on with your new nails. All you have to do is put the nails in between the previous holes to avoid hitting the old nails (this also works when the back gets ripped off while moving the bookcase :rolleyes:).
 
  • #25
Moonbear said:
They're screws in the sides on that style, not the cams. Cams usually are used for the tops of things like desks and utility carts (can you tell I've put more than a few of these things together in my life? I've been the "some assembly required" assembler since my early teenage years.) As for the back, just rip it back off...the cardboard will pop off around those tiny nail heads. Bang those nails in flush so they aren't in the way (it's not worth the effort to remove them), pick up a package of wire nails from the hardware store (they're a little smaller than the ones it comes with, but close enough...or else if you have one nail to bring with you, you can match it up to the right size), and after you've turned everything the right way, just nail the back on with your new nails. All you have to do is put the nails in between the previous holes to avoid hitting the old nails (this also works when the back gets ripped off while moving the bookcase :rolleyes:).
Yeah, the back will pop right off, do you have a little crowbar? Those things are handy. Little finishing nails will put it back together.
 
  • #26
Is this how you are going to set up your experiments when you are hired for a national lab? Tisk tisk tisk tisk tisk...
 
  • #27
upon closer inspection those are adjustable shelves. they just lift out. You don't even need to unload the shelf if you are careful you lazy ****.
and the top and bottom shelves do have the quick cam.
be careful if you do take the back off though, it's easy rip off a big noticable chunk. Don't try going without it though because it quickly collapses without it.
 
  • #28
cyrusabdollahi said:
Is this how you are going to set up your experiments when you are hired for a national lab? Tisk tisk tisk tisk tisk...

Hopefully LLNL will overlook this thread :rolleyes:
 
  • #29
tribdog said:
upon closer inspection those are adjustable shelves. they just lift out. You don't even need to unload the shelf if you are careful you lazy ****.
and the top and bottom shelves do have the quick cam.
be careful if you do take the back off though, it's easy rip off a big noticable chunk. Don't try going without it though because it quickly collapses without it.
The ones that are adjustable are the ones that are right-side-up. The upside-down and backward ones are the ones with screws. :biggrin: You can see where the screws are on the side. I've used bookcases without the backs, when they got damaged beyond repair while moving. That back offers no support whatsoever, it just keeps the books from falling through to the other side.
 
  • #30
Moonbear said:
The ones that are adjustable are the ones that are right-side-up. The upside-down and backward ones are the ones with screws. :biggrin: You can see where the screws are on the side. I've used bookcases without the backs, when they got damaged beyond repair while moving. That back offers no support whatsoever, it just keeps the books from falling through to the other side.
That back is the most important part of the structure. It might seem stable but if you've ever bought cardboard moving boxes that come folded up you know the only way to keep them box shape is to tape the bottom shut. The Shelves willl last a little while, but as things loosen or if he tries dragging it sideways the angles will change, then every bit of the weight put on the shelves will work to fold the box.
 
  • #31
Moonbear said:
They're screws in the sides on that style, not the cams. Cams usually are used for the tops of things like desks and utility carts (can you tell I've put more than a few of these things together in my life? I've been the "some assembly required" assembler since my early teenage years.) As for the back, just rip it back off...the cardboard will pop off around those tiny nail heads. Bang those nails in flush so they aren't in the way (it's not worth the effort to remove them), pick up a package of wire nails from the hardware store (they're a little smaller than the ones it comes with, but close enough...or else if you have one nail to bring with you, you can match it up to the right size), and after you've turned everything the right way, just nail the back on with your new nails. All you have to do is put the nails in between the previous holes to avoid hitting the old nails (this also works when the back gets ripped off while moving the bookcase :rolleyes:).
MB talking about construction, flush nails, going to the hardware store, now that is hot :!) :biggrin:
 
  • #32
The back is important ! It provides structural rigidity against shear forces normal to the backplane. I do not see any other structural features that provide strength against this kind of shear.
 
  • #33
that's what I said!
 
  • #34
Gokul43201 said:
The back is important ! It provides structural rigidity against shear forces normal to the backplane. I do not see any other structural features that provide strength against this kind of shear.
On those cheap bookcases? That flimsy piece of cardboard really doesn't do much. Those things are just as wobbly with it attached as without. Don't even TRY moving them with books on it, or you'll learn quickly how unstable they are. That back is an aesthetic feature only, not a structural one. That's why I commented about it being up in front of a window. You really want one of those bookcases flush against a wall, and if possible, get a small L-bracket or two and anchor the top shelf to the wall on those tall ones. The bookshelf itself will be light enough not to hurt much when it falls on you, but all the books hitting you as they fall off it really smart. :redface: Some of the slightly better quality ones (the ones you'll pay another $10 - $15 for) come with some additional supports under the top and bottom shelves that offer a little stability.

Oh, and tribdog, you must have been assembling the really "high quality" stuff to have quick-cams on it. :biggrin: Those get used on the "fancier" versions so you don't see the screws on the outside. If you get top-of-the-line particle board furniture, you get those. :approve: My computer desk and TV stand have those, because they're supposed to fake you into thinking they're real furniture (they're also made of thicker panels, so there's room to sink the quick cam in). I love those because you can quickly unassemble it to move it.
 
  • #35
tribdog said:
That back is the most important part of the structure. It might seem stable but if you've ever bought cardboard moving boxes that come folded up you know the only way to keep them box shape is to tape the bottom shut. The Shelves willl last a little while, but as things loosen or if he tries dragging it sideways the angles will change, then every bit of the weight put on the shelves will work to fold the box.
And that's when the cardboard pops off all the nails. How do you think I know what kind of nails to get to repair the cardboard backing? :wink:
 
  • #36
you are the most stubborn person I've ever met. the cardboard back is structually very important. there has to be a way to save face here. Even Gokul agreed with me. it's okay to blow me off, but c'mon we are talking Gokul here.
 
  • #37
Moonbear said:
On those cheap bookcases? That flimsy piece of cardboard really doesn't do much.
I disagree. The cardboard doesn't do anything to withstand stresses that make it bend into a "C" or "S" shape, but it's several orders of magnitude stiffer (the moment of inertia normal to the plane being about 104 times larger than those about the in-plane axes) with respect to stresses that try to shear the board along its plane.

Here...grab a sheet of cardboard by its top and bottom edges. Now try and pull the bottom edge to the left while pulling the top edge to the right (try to deform the rectangle into a parallelogram). You can't do it. Without the backing board, the bookshelf is weakest with respect to this mode of failure (assuming there's no L-brackets beneath the shelves). With the backing board, it no longer is.

Moral : There's a real, structural reason that the backing board is so thin - the moment of inertia comes from the dimensions normal to the thickness (it's the same reason a pipe is nearly as stiff as a similar looking rod).
 
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  • #38
Gokul43201 said:
Here...grab a sheet of cardboard by its top and bottom edges. Now try and pull the bottom edge to the left while pulling the top edge to the right (try to deform the rectangle into a parallelogram). You can't do it. Without the backing board, the bookshelf is weakest with respect to this mode of failure (assuming there's no L-brackets beneath the shelves). With the backing board, it no longer is.
I would agree, in theory, with a sturdier backing, it would help, but my experience with those bookshelves tells me that in practice, it doesn't work that way. The reason is that the nails holding the cardboard backing to the bookcase pop off or tear through the cardboard too easily (because of the narrow boards used, the nails all are placed within about 3 mm of the edge of the cardboard, and it really is very thin cardboard). In other words, no matter how strong the cardboard itself is against such deformation, the failure is the attachment point of the nails.

What provides the support that prevents deformation into a "parallelogram" is that one shelf that's installed backward that is screwed into place in the center. There is always one fixed shelf in addition to the top and bottom of the case, and that's what that shelf is doing, is providing the support against the whole thing deforming into parallelogram.
 
  • #39
that fixed shelf won't stop the parallelograming of the bookcase. you'll just have two parallelograms, or one big one divided in half. pretend there are hinges instead of screws on the shelves it folds the same with or without the middle shelf.
 
  • #40
I've built hundreds of these things and there is always a collapse danger until that backing is put on. I've never come out on top in an argument with you and I"m not giving up on this. Acknowledge me as your superior and it'll all be over. Submit. Resistance is unpossible.
 
  • #41
tribdog said:
that fixed shelf won't stop the parallelograming of the bookcase. you'll just have two parallelograms, or one big one divided in half. pretend there are hinges instead of screws on the shelves it folds the same with or without the middle shelf.
But they aren't hinges, that's what makes it more stable. Though, that's not to say these things are particularly stable anyway. Quite simply, don't try pushing them from the side to move them, they aren't constructed to withstand it.
 
  • #42
Sorry Moonbear, I got to go with tribdog and Gokul on this one. I've had numerous kit furniture like this and the backing is key. I'll admit that once the cardboard/masonite-type material is compromised at the nail holes, it's weaker, but when installed correctly, all the nails work together to support the structure (under reasonable loads). Another point that I hope the manufaturer made is to nail into the back of the shelves as well as the perimeter box, thus the nails are not only at the edge of the backing but also distributed across the material.

Penguino, I think the laminate is part of the "wood", which is really a compressed composite of chips and glue and such. Sometimes you can find it at hardware/lumber stores under the name 'melamine'.
 
  • #43
DocToxyn said:
Sorry Moonbear, I got to go with tribdog and Gokul on this one. I've had numerous kit furniture like this and the backing is key. I'll admit that once the cardboard/masonite-type material is compromised at the nail holes, it's weaker, but when installed correctly, all the nails work together to support the structure (under reasonable loads).
Yeah, but now tribdog is going to take any concession on my part as letting him be on top, and, well, you can understand why I'm just going to have to be unreasonably stubborn, right? :rolleyes: :devil: :rolleyes:
 
  • #44
Moonbear said:
...as letting him be on top...
I'm sure tribdog's not picky that way ! :biggrin:
 
  • #45
Gokul43201 said:
I'm sure tribdog's not picky that way ! :biggrin:
:shy: :blushing: I was afraid that might be the response.

Alright, alright, alright, I went around wiggling bookcases. I really never noticed a difference before. Then again, in my defense (sort of), I think I was referring more to not-so-reasonable loads...like when you're trying to push a full bookcase a few feet to the right to make room for something else. :rolleyes: Anyone buying it?[/size] :redface:
 
  • #46
Moonbear said:
...like when you're trying to push a full bookcase a few feet to the right to make room for something else.
And you're not using at least something like this ? :eek:

http://www.fimaks.com/images/forklift-big.jpg
 
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  • #47
Okay, maybe not completely full...then again, full enough that the base stayed put and the top moved, and, well, like I said, the bookshelf itself doesn't hurt much, but all the books sure do. :shy: I have a tendency to overdo things in the lifting department. I just rearranged my home office (so I can actually use it now that I have a new computer), and moved three bookcases around without bothering to remove the books...they aren't those tall 5-shelf ones though, just 3-shelf bookcases. One doesn't have much on it, so no big deal, one has photo albums and some paperback books, so again, not that big of a deal. The third one is filled with old textbooks. :eek: But, I didn't just push it sideways, I sort of "walked" it across the room...lift one side, rotate, lift the other side, rotate, etc. The bookcase and I both survived, though I've had sore muscles for a few days. It doesn't work that well with those tall ones though, and you only have to topple one once to not try it again.
 
  • #48
Say it. I want to hear you say it.
 
  • #49
tribdog said:
Say it. I want to hear you say it.
You already told me I'm stubborn. o:)
 
  • #50
It would kill you wouldn't it. That's alright. You don't have to say anything.
 

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