What is the relationship between energy levels and de Broglie waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between energy levels in atoms, particularly in hydrogen and hydrogen-like ions, and de Broglie waves. Participants examine the formulas for calculating energy levels and the implications for photon wavelengths during emission and absorption processes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the formula E(n) = -(Z^2)/(n^2) * Ei refers to the energy level of an atom with Z protons, suggesting it does not depend on the number of electrons.
  • Others clarify that this formula is applicable only to hydrogen and hydrogen-like ions, noting that interactions among multiple electrons affect energy levels.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriate formula to use for calculating the wavelength of emitted or absorbed photons, with some stating that E = pc for photons makes the choice between hc/E or h/p irrelevant.
  • A participant questions whether the wavelength of a photon corresponds to the energy change of an electron moving between energy levels, suggesting a relationship described by ΔE = hc/λ.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the applicability of the energy level formula to hydrogen-like systems and the relationship between energy and wavelength for photons. However, there is no consensus on the implications of these relationships or the best approach to calculating photon wavelengths.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence of the energy level formula on the number of electrons and the specific conditions under which it applies, as well as the assumptions made regarding the nature of photons and their energy-momentum relationship.

dalarev
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The Formula for computing E(n) = -(Z^2)/(n^2) * Ei

is fairly straight forward. Am I right in thinking this formula refers to the energy level of the atom with Z number of protons? This formula, what it yields at least, doesn't depend on the number of electrons the atom has?

Also, when trying to find the wavelength of the emitted/absorbed photon, should we use hc/E or h/p ? What makes a wave a de Broglie wave? I have deeper doubts but I don't even know where to start, I hope with more replies it'll become clearer.
 
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dalarev said:
The Formula for computing E(n) = -(Z^2)/(n^2) * Ei

is fairly straight forward. Am I right in thinking this formula refers to the energy level of the atom with Z number of protons? This formula, what it yields at least, doesn't depend on the number of electrons the atom has?

This formula works only for hydrogen and for "hydrogen-like" ions, that is, ions with only one electron, e.g. He+, Li++, Be+++, etc. If there's more than one electron, the electrons interact with each other and this affects the energy levels.

Also, when trying to find the wavelength of the emitted/absorbed photon, should we use hc/E or h/p ?

It doesn't make any difference, because for a photon, E = pc. This follows from the general formula for energy, momentum and rest mass:

[tex]E^2 = (pc)^2 + (m_0 c^2)^2[/tex]

with [itex]m_0 = 0[/itex] for a photon.
 
jtbell said:
This formula works only for hydrogen and for "hydrogen-like" ions, that is, ions with only one electron, e.g. He+, Li++, Be+++, etc. If there's more than one electron, the electrons interact with each other and this affects the energy levels.
I suppose for the purpose of my class (and my exam today) this general formula will be enough. Actually, they love to use the energy 13.6 eV in the book, I believe this is the same case that only applies for single electron-atoms.



jtbell said:
It doesn't make any difference, because for a photon, E = pc. This follows from the general formula for energy, momentum and rest mass:

[tex]E^2 = (pc)^2 + (m_0 c^2)^2[/tex]

with [itex]m_0 = 0[/itex] for a photon.
That's exactly right..I didn't think it through very well.


What about when they ask for the energy of the photon that is emitted? The wavelength of the emitted/absorbed photon will always equal the Energy needed for the electron to move from one energy level to the next, correct?
 
dalarev said:
What about when they ask for the energy of the photon that is emitted? The wavelength of the emitted/absorbed photon will always equal the Energy needed for the electron to move from one energy level to the next, correct?

The wavelength of an emitted/absorbed photon will be related to the energy decrease/increase of the electron that absorbed it by:

[tex]\Delta E=hc/\lambda[/tex]
 
Last edited:

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