What is the role of RC in opamp feedback loop for Type 2 opamp compensators?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of RC components in the feedback loop of Type 2 operational amplifiers (opamps) used in DC-DC converters. Participants explore the implications of these components on phase margin and gain margin, as well as the relationship between phase shift and phase margin in circuit design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes Type 1 opamp compensators as integrators and seeks to understand how the addition of a capacitor and parallel resistor in Type 2 compensators enhances phase margin.
  • Another participant suggests that the complexity of the mathematical details may be a barrier to responses, recommending a specific PDF for deeper understanding.
  • There is a suggestion to refer to opamp manufacturer documentation for compensation guidance, noting that many opamps are internally compensated for general use.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the bode plot of an integrator, questioning why the gain decreases gradually rather than resembling a low pass filter response.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are multiple viewpoints regarding the understanding of phase margin, gain margin, and the behavior of integrators in the context of opamp feedback loops.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the relationship between phase shift and phase margin, and there are unresolved mathematical details related to the design of opamp compensators.

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I am trying to understand Type1, 2 and 3 opamp compensators used in DCDC converters.
Type 1 is just an opamp integrator.

Type 2 has a C in feedback loop with parallel RC. How does this boost the phase Margin?
(page 307 - http://tinyurl.com/3qyt5dc)
I understand phase and gain margin when I look at the bode plots. But I don't get it when I am designing a ckt.

Also, how do I relate phase shift with phase margin.
For example, the inverting integrator output has -180 phase shift, but phase margin is -90 degrees. Is there a way to relate the two?
 
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Anyone?
 
No replies because there are a lot of gory math details to explaining it generally. The following is pretty good in that respect:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.151.7235&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Instead of that, however, the easy way is to always refer to the Op Amp manufacturer's documentation on how to compensate it. If they don't have such, it's internally compensated for any reasonable use already. If they do, then just use the design-specific formulae they provide and don't think about it too deeply.

If you need to know this for an engineering school assignment, then the above PDF links is what you want. You have to grok it at that level to generalize and build an intuition for it. Sorry. Nature of the beast.
 
No replies because there are a lot of gory math details to explaining it generally. The following is pretty good in that respect:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.151.7235&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Instead of that, however, the easy way is to always refer to the Op Amp manufacturer's documentation on how to compensate it. If they don't have such, it's internally compensated for any reasonable use already. If they do, then just use the design-specific formulae they provide and don't think about it too deeply.

If you need to know this for an engineering school assignment, then the above PDF links is what you want. You have to grok it at that level to generalize and build an intuition for it. Sorry. Nature of the beast.
 
No replies because there are a lot of gory math details to explaining it generally. The following is pretty good in that respect:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.151.7235&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Instead of that, however, the easy way is to always refer to the Op Amp manufacturer's documentation on how to compensate it. If they don't have such, it's internally compensated for any reasonable use already. If they do, then just use the design-specific formulae they provide and don't think about it too deeply.

If you need to know this for an engineering school assignment, then the above PDF links is what you want. You have to grok it at that level to generalize and build an intuition for it. Sorry. Nature of the beast.
 
I am puzzled by the integrator bode plot.
High gain at zero and gain gradually reduces.

Even though there is a resistor before the capacitor.

Shouldn't it be like a low pass filter. Constant gain up to some freq and then gain gradually reduces?
 

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