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News What is the solution to America being a terrorist nation?

  1. Jul 21, 2005 #1
    I am sick of all the criticism that is being directed towards America with no solutions given. What is the solution? What should be done with America....Lets hear it.
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 21, 2005 #2
    For me it's not what America isn't doing that's the problem, it's what America is doing. And it's pretty simple and self explanitory, you lead by example. You don't imprison people without charges, everyone gets a fair trial, you don't blow up appartment buildings (really, there's no reason why you would need to do that), you don't kill people for being a 'suspect' you don't try to attract kids towards your soldiers when on patrol, you don't do all the **** that America's being criticized for doing.

    There's nothing extra you can do, you just stop causing problems in the first place. It's not complicated. You stop and start acting like the moral society you claim to be. America's the only democracy that continuously seems to find this so difficult.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  4. Jul 21, 2005 #3
    I think we are...I have never seen anything post here or anywhere else that would lead me to believe otherwise.

    Telling America to stop acting the way it does is pointless because it will not accomplish anything. If we are in fact terrorist and terrorist cannot be reasoned with then what makes anyone think that the terrorist of America are any different?

    I am agnostic so it is not a religious conviction that makes me feel America is justified. It is the not the media because I never watch TV and get almost all my news from RSS feeds that come from just about everywhere. Yet, I believe and so many of my countrymen believe America is doing the right thing.

    So you offered no solution smurf...sorry but telling us we need to start acting in a way that we believe we are is not going to work.

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  5. Jul 21, 2005 #4
    like when US soldiers get blown up for giving candy and toys to children? what's next, did they poison the candy too?


    personally i find it insulting that the US would even be considered a "terrorist nation". and if the best argument you can make is "what about the civilians in Iraq" that does not constitute terrorism since the US has not purposefully targeted civilians since Vietnam.

    How about Canada being a "terrorist nation" too? Hey, anyone can join the club!

    http://www.isranet.org/DataBank/canada_terrorism.htm [Broken]

    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  6. Jul 21, 2005 #5
    I agree but for the sake of argument I want to just have everyone pretend that TSM is correct in saying that America is a terrorist nation like any other terrorist nation. I want to know what people who agree with this point of view think should be done about. I want to hear their solutions....
  7. Jul 21, 2005 #6
    No, you wouldn't regard it as a solution, of course how could you when you don't even recognise the problem. I thought you created this thread to discuss how America can change, not argue over weather it needs to. You've named it inaccurately.
  8. Jul 21, 2005 #7


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    Good luck townsend, i asked people "How shoudl Iraq be liberated if the US isnt suppose to do it" and basically all i heard for 5 pages was "they didnt want to be free, they enjoyed Saddam" or "The UN was going to do it in a few years" (no proof obviously). Someone got into a "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is" argument as well.
  9. Jul 21, 2005 #8


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    Well i think this will set the stage for the rest of this thread
  10. Jul 21, 2005 #9


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    Do you not think it is strange for occupying troops to be handing out candy to kids during a combat mission. This was not a meet the people PR trip. The reason the troops were in the area was because they had received intelligence about a car bomb there. Some might think a) It was incredibly irresponsible for them to attract children to them in a combat zone. Especially as the US gov't has been saying for some time that the insurgents target children who talk to the US forces or b) The troops were trying to use the children as a human shield to deter attacks.

    If that is true then there is something seriously amiss with the training US troops receive or else their eyesight is dreadful as their accuracy is appalling. As I posted on another thread the US military is directly responsible for 37% of civilian deaths whereas the insurgents who are supposedly targeting civilians are responsible for 9.5% (including police and recruits) Based on these statistics maybe the US should target civilians as they would then probably miss thus saving lives. :smile:
  11. Jul 21, 2005 #10
    Oh come on Quetz. I'm dissapointed, surely you don't expect me to argue with you on that one? However, I have read bells book and you know there are a thousand better examples for Canadian terrorism than an article about that guy. At least mention Sudan or something solid.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  12. Jul 21, 2005 #11
    I am trying to agree with the perspective of the people who think that America is a terrorist nation for the sake of the argument. Nothing more.

    The reason I don't find it a solution is because I can step outside my front door and shout out what you want me to say and yet nothing will change. If I could afford it, I could have you make a commercial and run it on every station in America but again, nothing would change.

    I want to know what should be done to stop America. It is a nation of Terrorist! How do we fix it?
  13. Jul 21, 2005 #12
    Ah, what can you personally do is what you're asking? Well why didn't you just bloody say so.
  14. Jul 21, 2005 #13
    Not just me...anyone. The whole world...what can anyone do to fix America?
  15. Jul 21, 2005 #14
    Well sadly townsend, the first step is getting the American people to own up and realise that you are not acting the way a superpower should. You either need to change your government in the next election, or force the current government to change it's ways and you can only do that if you get the people to a) realise the government is ****ing up, b) get the lazy american people off their butts and into the streets, c) picket, boycot, protest, blah blah blah. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately it seems like we're not even at a yet, despite most of the rest of the world trying to tell it to you.

    All anyone anywhere else can do is put pressure on America and the American people, by the same methods.
  16. Jul 21, 2005 #15


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    Somehow I suspect all this is leading up to "WELL I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU TRY" If so can we cut out the prologue and cut to the chase?
  17. Jul 21, 2005 #16
    I do not know why they were playing with children, but I don't find it hard to imagine that it was because soldiers are people too, with their own families back home. They are not completely heartless, maybe they just wanted a break from routine and to toss a football around or something, who knows? My experience with US soldiers has been that they are very professional and decent people. There are always some bad apples unfortunately, but the vast majority are just really nice people trying to do their job.

    I will accept your figure of 37% at face value, because I do not doubt it. Why? Because the insurgents are fighting on their own turf, they are familiar with the urban landscape and so they hide and conduct operations from places like apartment building, homes, hotels, etc. In the course of combat, it should be no surprise that civilians will be killed.

    It is sad and unfortunate but I do not believe that it is done purposely, and I certainly do not believe that it is due to incompetence as you have suggested. The reality is that if someone is shooting as US soldiers from a building, the soldiers are going to shoot back and it is not a perfect science - innocents will die.

    I would bet you that more than 37% of civilian casualties in WWII were also due to allied forces, particularly French and German civilians. It is a sad yet unavoidable consequence of any war.
  18. Jul 21, 2005 #17

    Let me be your pawn Art. Tell me, what would you have me do? What would the world have to do? If you were a world leader of say...Britain, what would you be doing to fix it?

    The perspective of the American is that the world is against us right now. I think adding more pressure will only backfire and create the opposite effect.

    Let's see some creative ideas that would work to fix the problem...instead of pushing pointless diatribe down the throats of Americans lets see what the world has to offer? There is a lot of creative minds here so I want some ideas?

    Feel free to brain storm...
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  19. Jul 21, 2005 #18


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    The point remains these US troops were not out to kill time they were out on a combat mission following intel of a car bomb in the area which turned out to be true. Now if this was a leafy suburb in an American town and the authorities were called out to a similar incident, tell me honestly do you think the authorities would be handing out candy to kids or would they be telling them to get the hell off the streets and stay there until the situation was handled?

    Two points why is it an inevitable consequence when US troops do it and deliberate when insurgents do it? And secondly as Bush formally declared an end to combat in Iraq certain international laws under the Geneva convention come into play including a legal responsibility on the occupying forces to protect civilians and property. Since Bush's declaration of end of hostilities, they are no longer allowed legally to fire at civilian occupied structures even if there is a rebel in the building firing at them no more than they would destroy an apartment block in Manhattan if a sniper fired at the authorities from the building.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2005
  20. Jul 21, 2005 #19
    Oooh this looks fun. ok, let me see hmmm. As PM of britain I would:

    1. Immediately stand down all forces deployed in Iraq. Stop patrols, stop all attempts to control or occupy british sections of iraq, find some way to do it without physically removing the troops (or most of) from the country. Demand that bush achieve higher more and civilian-friendly standards in his occupation if he wants our continued help.
    2. Initiate UN movements to condemn america for all atrocities committed in iraq, guantanamo, anywhere. Wait for america to Veto them, then make public statements condemning USA's use of Veto to avoid responsibility.

    Just a start. More later.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  21. Jul 21, 2005 #20
    Ok...but feel free to think outside the box. You don't just have to be PM of Britain you know....
  22. Jul 21, 2005 #21
    Are you trying to say that the troops wanted themselves to get blown up, and take a few children with them (you realize that soliders also died in that bombing)? :rofl:

    Point 1: the US is not purposefully targeting civilians as part of their strategy: the insurgents are. The insurgent want the civilians to be afraid to go anywhere near American soliders - they wish to use fear in order to break down civilian support for the US military presence. They seek to cause instability by causing civilian casualties in order to put pressure on the newly formed government. It is part of the insurgents strategy, and it violates the rules of war. In contrast, dropping a bomb on a building that is housing insurgents does not violate the rules of war.

    It is in the interest of the US to keep the civilians happy. It is in the interest of the insurgents to keep the civilians unhappy - who do you think is going to try harder to avoid hurting civilians? Who also has the technology and skills to do so?

    Point 2: the Geneva convention does not apply to those not wearing a uniform. Under the Geneva convention, parties who have signed the convention are bound to certain civilities.
  23. Jul 21, 2005 #22


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    Unfortunately the second law of thermodynamics plays it's part in politics as well and so there is no simple fix. At this time civil war in Iraq seems inevitable. Some commentators say it is already happening. What the US could do is withdraw their military immediately, apologise profusely to the Iraqi people for the disaster they have created and then to the rest of the world for ignoring their warnings. They should cooperate fully with an international enquiry and based on it's findings hand over to the world court anybody accused of war crimes.
    After that it is a matter of lessons learned and a change in foreign policy to demonstrate their new found humbleness.
  24. Jul 21, 2005 #23
    So what about future terrorist attacks? What are we to do when they bring the American economy to its knees?

    For politicians the Constitution does not exactly allow for such a thing to happen.

    Ok...does that mean you don't have any ideas? Sure, you tell me what you think America should do but you don't say how that is supposed to happen. So has it come to this? Everyone complains but nobody knows what to do to fix things? :rolleyes:
  25. Jul 21, 2005 #24


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    Or perhaps on the contrary they thought surrounding themselves with children would protect them from being blown up. I note you didn't answer my question BTW.

    And yet the statistics clearly show that the US are 4* as efficient at killing civilians. The facts do not support your hypothesis. Has it occurred to you that your thinking might be skewed by US gov't propaganda. As to your references to dropping a bomb on a civilian occupied building being legitimate. To a point during war it is allowed, although to nowhere near the extent you imply. However as Bush formally declared an end to hostilities, as I said previously, a whole new set of rules came into force and dropping bombs on a building housing civilians is now a war crime. Read the conventions if you don't believe me. This is not opinion it is fact.

    Yes you should definitely read the Geneva conventions. I think you will find you are very much mistaken or are you seriously saying civilians should wear uniforms before they can claim protection under the Geneva conventions?

    The problem seems to be that you in line with Bush and his administration believe the Geneva conventions are an a la carte menu to be taken or left at one's pleasure. The rest of the world does not hold with this view.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2005
  26. Jul 21, 2005 #25


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    Can you provide the sources or references detailing where Iraqi terrorists attacked the US? As I recall 15 of the hijackers who attacked the twin towers were Saudis. Did the military mistakenly make a left instead of a right on their way to exact retribution?

    Now that one is easy to fix. How many amendments are there already to the US constitution? Just add another one.

    I gave you ideas. The fact you don't like them is an entirely different issue.
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