What's inbetween an atom's nucleus and electrons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the space between an atom's nucleus and its electrons, exploring concepts of emptiness, vacuum, and the implications of quantum mechanics. Participants examine the idea of "nothingness" in atomic structure and the implications of measurement in quantum physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the space between an atom's nucleus and electrons is "nothing" or empty space, which constitutes a significant portion of matter.
  • Others argue that the Bohr model is not entirely accurate, suggesting that electrons are not fixed in place but are described by probabilities of their locations.
  • One participant questions the methods used to measure electron positions, referencing the double-slit experiment to highlight the impact of observation on quantum behavior.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the concept of empty space, questioning how it can hold electrons without being a vacuum.
  • Some participants clarify that while there is empty space between electrons, it does not imply that the electrons themselves are vacuums.
  • One participant introduces the idea that energy exists in the space between the nucleus and electrons, suggesting a relationship between mass and energy as per E=mc².
  • Another participant notes that while the space is mostly empty, neutrinos, which have mass, may still be present in that space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of the space between the nucleus and electrons. While some agree that it is "nothing," others introduce concepts of energy and particles like neutrinos, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in understanding the implications of quantum mechanics and measurement, as well as the definitions of vacuum and empty space. There is also uncertainty regarding the extent to which energy may be present in the space between atomic components.

MrPickle
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If every thing's made up of atoms then that means air's made of atoms too so there can't be air between an atom's nucleus and electron so what is there? Nothing?
 
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Great question. You're right, nothing (to our knowledge).
Empty space makes up 99.9% (or more) of matter... and matter itself makes up a ridiculously small portion of the universe...
At the same time i should point out that the bohr model isn't exactly accurate (i.e. electrons don't circule around the nucleus like planets around the sun). Electrons aren't at anyone place at any particular time, they can only be described by what region they will most likely be in at a particular time. So in a way, this "empty space" is a region where there might be electrons (though very unlikely -> especially far away).
 
lzkelley said:
Great question. You're right, nothing (to our knowledge).
Empty space makes up 99.9% (or more) of matter... and matter itself makes up a ridiculously small portion of the universe...
At the same time i should point out that the bohr model isn't exactly accurate (i.e. electrons don't circule around the nucleus like planets around the sun). Electrons aren't at anyone place at any particular time, they can only be described by what region they will most likely be in at a particular time. So in a way, this "empty space" is a region where there might be electrons (though very unlikely -> especially far away).

Thank you, that's been bugging me and now I know :)
 
One question left... what method we use to measure the position of electron around the nucleus. See, the problem now is I'm starting to doubt how we conclude things... or should I say what is the extent of the experiment. Just like the double split experiment show interfearance pattern, but when we observe it, the patter go away. Turn out that cause by the device we use to observe. "That's the story I got".
 
How can nothing be in the space that could hold an electron, but doesnt?

Space is quite literally just space. It's nothing. Because there is truly nothing in space, it is a vacuum.

If nothing was inbetween the electrons, wouldn't they as well be a vacuum?
 
pirtle said:
How can nothing be in the space that could hold an electron, but doesnt?

Space is quite literally just space. It's nothing. Because there is truly nothing in space, it is a vacuum.

If nothing was inbetween the electrons, wouldn't they as well be a vacuum?


There are probabilities for where the electron will be located at any given moment. Take hydrogen for example, which only has one electron. Arbitrarily, let's say there's a 90% chance that the electron will reside in the first energy shell. That means that there's a 10% chance that the electron will not be in that shell and thus it will be completely empty space.

As to your second question, I'm slightly confused as to what you mean. Just because that their is empty space between one electron and another electron doesn't mean that the electrons themselves are vacuums. Similarly, just because a jar encompasses a vacuum doesn't mean that the jar itself is a vacuum.
 
WilliamD said:
As to your second question, I'm slightly confused as to what you mean. Just because that their is empty space between one electron and another electron doesn't mean that the electrons themselves are vacuums. Similarly, just because a jar encompasses a vacuum doesn't mean that the jar itself is a vacuum.

i was referring to the empty space between the electrons. when i picture empty space, i picture a vacuum. would the empty spaces be microscopic vacuums?

sorry for the poorly worded question
 
Well...a vacuum is defined as a space that contains absolutely no matter. There will be next to no matter in the space between electrons, but there will always be neutrinos traveling through that space which are tiny particles (but still have mass).
 
Well may be some of you say nothing is there between an atom and electron, which i personaly agree with but there is another answer to this question in my personal opinion is that there is energy and since E=mc^2 so mass is some what equal to energy.
 

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