What's the difference between energy and force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences and relationships between energy and force, exploring their definitions, mathematical representations, and conceptual implications. Participants engage in technical reasoning and clarification of terms, with references to physics principles and equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that force can be viewed as related to energy, with one suggesting that force is "just acting energy."
  • Others argue that force and energy are fundamentally different, noting that one is a vector and the other a scalar.
  • A participant explains that force can be derived from energy through the equation Fx = dE/dx, using gravitational potential energy as an example.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between force and power, with one participant asserting that force is the rate of change of momentum, while power is the rate of change of energy.
  • Another participant clarifies that "rate of change" must specify the variable with respect to which it is measured, leading to different expressions for force and energy.
  • One participant states that force can be expressed in terms of potential energy and kinetic energy, suggesting a relationship between them.
  • There is a query about the units of energy, with participants confirming that energy and work share the same units of measurement (kg m²/s²).
  • Another participant provides a plain English explanation of force as a push or pull that can cause acceleration, linking it to the concept of work and kinetic energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between force and energy, with some asserting they are distinct concepts while others suggest they are interconnected. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of their relationship.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' claims depend on specific definitions and contexts, such as the distinction between different types of energy and the conditions under which force acts. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the derivations presented.

kashiark
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Is force just acting energy?
 
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Well for one they're completely different.

For two one is a vector the other is a scalar.
 
How are they completely different?
 
For one thing, if the energy E is stored energy due to a force Fx in the direction x, then the force is given by the derivative

Fx= dE/dx

For example, if the stored energy E of a mass m is mgy, then the force is

Fy = d(mgy)/dy = mg.

Bob S
 
So force is just the rate of change of energy?
 
kashiark said:
So force is just the rate of change of energy?
No, that's power. Force is the rate of change of momentum.
 
kashiark said:
So force is just the rate of change of energy?

A.T. said:
No, that's power. Force is the rate of change of momentum.

Note that "rate of change" by itself doesn't mean anything. You have to specify rate of change with respect to what, which is where the distinction arises:
[tex]F=\frac{dp}{dt}[/tex]

[tex]F=\frac{dE}{dx}[/tex]

[tex]P=\frac{dE}{dt}[/tex]
 
Nabeshin said:
Note that "rate of change" by itself doesn't mean anything.
True. I assumed with respect to time.
 
kashiark said:
Is force just acting energy?

Yes, exactly.

If we speak of potential energy U(r) the force F is -dU/dr. dr is the vector indicating in what direction the energy is acting.

If we speak of kinetic energy in collision T=mv2/2, the force result (work) is ∆T.

Together they can give you the complete solution of a problem.
 
  • #10
Ok, I think that I've got it: Force is rate of change of energy with respect to a particular dimension, and it's the rate of change of momentum with respect to time. What is energy measured in? Kg*m²/s²?
 
  • #11
I think this is more like plain English:

A force is a push or a pull applied to something. A force has the ability to overcome the inertia of an object (its tendency to keep the same velocity) and cause it to accelerate (change its velocity). The mass of the object is the constant of proportionality between the force and the resulting acceleration (F=ma). If the force is able to displace an object, the force does work on it, but, if the force is exactly balanced by another force that has the opposite direction, the net force will be zero, and no work will be done on the object. The net work done on an object equals the change in its kinetic energy.
 
  • #12
kashiark said:
What is energy measured in? Kg*m²/s²?

The equations show that work and energy have the same units:

unit of acceleration
m/s^2

force = (mass)(acceleration)
1 Newton = 1 (kg)(m/s^2) = 1 kg m/s^2

work = (force)(displacement)
1 joule = 1 (kg m/s^2)(m) = 1 kg m^2/s^2

... or ...

kinetic energy = (1/2) m v^2
1 joule = 1 (kg)(m/s)^2 = 1 kg m^2/s^2
 

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