What's the Minimum Energy of a Wave Needed to View a 0.1 nm Particle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the minimum energy of a wave required to observe a particle with a size of 0.1 nm. Participants explore various equations and concepts related to wave-particle duality, specifically focusing on the application of De Broglie's relations and the kinetic energy of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using De Broglie's relation (E=fh=hc/λ) to calculate the energy, arriving at 12400 eV, but notes this is incorrect.
  • Another participant proposes an alternative equation for the wavelength associated with a particle of mass M, indicating it involves kinetic energy rather than total energy.
  • A different participant claims the correct answer is 150 eV, rounded to 0.2 keV, and mentions the distinction between non-relativistic and relativistic particles as a factor in choosing the appropriate equation.
  • There is a request for clarification on the variable K, which is not defined in the initial posts.
  • Another participant points out that using E=fh=hc/λ assumes particles move at the speed of light and discusses the implications of non-relativistic formulas for calculating wavelength.
  • A later reply critiques the use of frequency instead of wavelength and references the dispersion relation derived by De Broglie, highlighting the complexity of phase velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct approach to calculating the minimum energy, with no consensus reached on which equation is appropriate or what the correct energy value is.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved definitions, particularly regarding the variable K, and participants have not clarified the assumptions underlying their calculations or the conditions under which each equation should be applied.

teclordphrack
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I have a problem that ask for the minimum energy of a wave that we will use to see a particle of size .1 nm. I understand that I can not see a .1 nm particle with any wave length larger than .1 nm. I thought this would be easy and I would use De Broglis relation of electron waves. (f=E/h) or E=fh=hc/λ. Using this I get 12400eV... this is the wrong answer.

What the book says to do is use an eqn. "wavelength associated with a particle of mass M.

it is: λ=hc/sqrt(2mc^2K) OR for my specific case: λ=1.226/sqrt(K) nm

This second equation , if I am correct, is getting the kinetic energy of the wavelength, not the total energy.

I do not understand what I should be looking for in problems asking for energy of wavelengths to distinguish the use of the first eqn I presented Vs the second one. Any enlightenment on this area would be appreciated.
 
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I get 12400eV... this is the wrong answer.
:confused: That's what I get too. What do you think it should be?
 


you have to use λ=hc/sqrt(2Kmc^2). The answer is 150eV and is rounded to .2KeV because of sig figs with the .1nm. There is something to do with non/relative particles, i think. That you use to determine which of the 2 equations to use.
 


What is K?
 


E=fh=hc/λ would assume that the electrons move at the speed of light. For 1nm, they are slow and non-relativistic formulas can be used. 1/2mv^2=E, λ=v/f=vh/E. Solving this for λ(E) should give the formula in post 3.
 


[You're using the equation for frequency, not wavelength. The reason that's difficult is that phase velocity is not constant, so you can't just use the inverse as the wavelength. De Broglie derived the dispersion relation vgroup*vphase = c2, where vgroup is the particle velocity.
 

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