What's the source of power of wizard in the Potter universe?

[DHF]

I have relatives who are otherwise seemingly sane, productive members of society and good family folks, but who believe in insane stuff like creationism and the young Earth. One of them has a PhD in math is technically brilliant but thinks Evolution is nonsense.

That is so strange, you would think going through academia for that long, you would be less prone to things that didn't make sense. Especially coming from a STEM subject, its pretty amazing that they believe stories from a book that was written by dozens of men over thousands of years and edited more times then a George Lucus film.

 

[phinds]

That is so strange, you would think going through academia for that long, you would be less prone to things that didn't make sense. Especially coming from a STEM subject, its pretty amazing that they believe stories from a book that was written by dozens of men over thousands of years and edited more times then a George Lucus film.

Religion is a matter of faith and has nothing to do with facts or science. He believed all this from early teaching and it became a matter of faith, not subject to rational analysis.

 

[DHF]

Religion is a matter of faith and has nothing to do with facts or science. He believed all this from early teaching and it became a matter of faith, not subject to rational analysis.

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

 

[Sophia]

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

I think that what one believes in depends more on their personality, level of emotionality, life experiences and community one lives in etc.
Faith is a completely different area than logical thinking. It's like saying how can anyone enjoy art if they know that music is only vibrations and colours on paintings are caused by wavelengths emitted by chemical substances. If you know this, how can you think art is something more?
Some people enjoy art, some not so much. It has little to do with science education.
The same goes for faith. You either were not so attached to your Catholic faith from the beginning, or your faith was based on the fact that it seemed to logically explain the origin of life. Once you found a better explanation, you changed your mind.
People who believe even with high level of education either believe strongly emotionally, or they use religion as a source of meaning to life. They want their life to have a deeper meaning and science cannot provide that for all people (I am not saying that atheists must be depressed and their lives have no meaning. I'm saying what SOME religious people think). That is probably the reason they refuse evolution. And there are other historical and cultural reasons, especially for American evangelists. It has to do with American puritans, fear of nazism and communism, even when some of them are not aware of it. In short, American Christians have much bigger problem believing in evolution compared to Europeans. It Is a long history that can't be explained in a short post.
In Europe, mainstream churches have no problem combing evolution and faith. In fact, that was one of the reasons I joined Catholic Church even though I am definitely not orthodox. My professor of environmental ethics is both MA in biology and a Catholic priest. He even makes money by writing books about fusing Christianity and evolution.

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

 

[DHF]

Sophia, thank you for that, this is something that I guess I always took for granted and it was very interesting to see your take on it. I was particularly interested in reading how religious organisations in Europe deal with the issues. When I was in England I never really paid attention to how churches behaved. thank you again for the post, it was very enlightening.

 

[Hornbein]

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

No large human-created-and-used system is perfect. You take what you can use and disregard the rest.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated).

Perhaps the father cheated?

"How does that work?", I hear you ask. Magic, duh!

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

Darwinian Evolution is a good story. Provably wrong, but it just makes sense.

(Genetic drift, cross species DNA transfer, variable mutation rates, etc. all disprove strict Darwinian Evolution. So no, I'm not a young earther. Modern Evolutionary Synthesis is a far cry from Darwin's original hypothesis.)

"It just makes sense" isn't a much better argument than the literal acceptance of 2500 year old parables, IMO.

 

[DaveC426913]

So far, everyone's been talking about either the storage devices or conduits for the magic. Anyone have any ideas from whence the magic comes in order to get into the blood or wand?

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

So far, everyone's been talking about either the storage devices or conduits for the magic. Anyone have any ideas from whence the magic comes in order to get into the blood or wand?

Magic is about emergent patterns. Specifically it's about emergent patterns in the human brain that don't quite fit reality. The patterns are usually useful for some purposes and not useful for others. Between the two groups is a grey area where they might seem useful but aren't in reality.

But because they seem useful, they leave holes which can be exploited.

For example we might dream of special powers that let us acquire money. This can motivate us to get up and go to work. Or it can motivate us to dream of breaking into Gringots or worse actually rob a real bank. So on one side of the pattern there's a useful industriousness and on the other greed and violence. But between them is a magical world of imagination. In this grey area our mental defenses are weak.

From our excess fantasies, and through these weakly defended grey areas a form of imaginary power seeps. That power seeps into blood and wands fueling our hopes for the heroes and fears of the villains.

 

[DaveC426913]

From our excess fantasies, and through these weakly defended grey areas a form of imaginary power seeps. That power seeps into blood and wands fueling our hopes for the heroes and fears of the villains.

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

Exactly.

 

[Hornbein]

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

Happens all the time. But more usually to a trollcar.

 

[James Holland]

i think potter and all were taking hard core drugs and seeing things with no noses

 

[Megaquark]

According to Arthur C. Clarke's third law, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...so obviously the source of wizard power is sufficiently advanced technology...I'm guessing it was handed down from space wizards who lived a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Can you elaborate further on why the source of power could be “sometimes no” in the bloodlines?

The Wizard gene is dominant, whereas Muggle genes are recessive. If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated). You cannot transform a Muggle into a Wizard. I think that the controversy was centered more around purity and power, but the magic had to originate in the bloodlines to even begin that feud.

In that case Muggles would have Wizard blood. The Courts trying "fake wizards" claimed they had no Wizard blood. The Wizarding world would have had ways to detect Wizard blood in people, the issue had been critical to them for centuries.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

According to Arthur C. Clarke's third law, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...so obviously the source of wizard power is sufficiently advanced technology...I'm guessing it was handed down from space wizards who lived a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

He also said, with some degree of exasperation, that he didn't mean the advanced technology WAS magic.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

In that case Muggles would have Wizard blood. The Courts trying "fake wizards" claimed they had no Wizard blood. The Wizarding world would have had ways to detect Wizard blood in people, the issue had been critical to them for centuries.

Ways of detecting active Wizard genes in muggles had been limited. They did not have a way to determine what people around the world were unwittingly showing signs of magic in public. Most believed that exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world would be the end of them all- their fear was that they would be hunted down by the Muggles. But, the elitist Wizards believed that breeding with their own kind would lessen the occurrence of that threat and protect the magical world. Those that disagreed with their agenda and continued risking exposure were marked for removal. Rowling based this aspect mainly around Nazi Germany...

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter...

 

[Khatti]

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter..

If I'm not mistaken Ma'am Noisy uses the cadet photo of Robert Anson Heinlein as his Avatar. I seem to remember it from Heinlein's biography.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Ways of detecting active Wizard genes in muggles had been limited. They did not have a way to determine what people around the world were unwittingly showing signs of magic in public. Most believed that exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world would be the end of them all- their fear was that they would be hunted down by the Muggles. But, the elitist Wizards believed that breeding with their own kind would lessen the occurrence of that threat and protect the magical world. Those that disagreed with their agenda and continued risking exposure were marked for removal. Rowling based this aspect mainly around Nazi Germany...

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter...

I was born in 1951.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

If I'm not mistaken Ma'am Noisy uses the cadet photo of Robert Anson Heinlein as his Avatar. I seem to remember it from Heinlein's biography.

Spot on. But I'm not a Ma'am.

 

[Khatti]

Spot on. But I'm not a Ma'am.

I was referring to Freyja, not you.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I was referring to Freyja, not you.

My corn was fully fused.

 

[Khatti]

My corn was fully fused.

Happens to the best of us.During my carpentry period there were days when I just couldn't read a tape measure. Some days when I write I find it appalling what ends up on the page.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

I was born in 1951.

Near my fathers age. Still a good playing range...

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Near my fathers age. Still a good playing range...

My wife was going to be a children's librarian and required I read the first book so she could have someone to argue about it with. I was hooked on Philospher's Stone. After that we ordered copies of new releases two at a time so we wouldn't have to wait for the other to finish reading. (She was working full time and going to school part time, so she had less time to read than I did, but she didn't want to have to fight me for the book when she had free time.

/TMI

 

[Fervent Freyja]

My wife was going to be a children's librarian and required I read the first book so she could have someone to argue about it with. I was hooked on Philospher's Stone. After that we ordered copies of new releases two at a time so we wouldn't have to wait for the other to finish reading. (She was working full time and going to school part time, so she had less time to read than I did, but she didn't want to have to fight me for the book when she had free time.

/TMI

That is sweet! Did you guys stand in line at the bookstore together waiting hours for the new releases? I stayed overnight by the door with my friends for one release in my teens.

Nothing is TMI for me...

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Never stood in line. Too lazy.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm a LotR guy.

HP came along too late for me to get caught up in it. I could tell parts that were precious to fans but didn't do much for me.

(It was so adorable when a 30-something co-worker said, with surprise: "Wait - Lord of the Rings was a book first? And it's how old??")

 

[phinds]

If I'm not mistaken Ma'am Noisy uses the cadet photo of Robert Anson Heinlein as his Avatar. I seem to remember it from Heinlein's biography.

And outstanding example of how not using proper punctuation can lead to confusion. With a comma after "Ma'am" there is no ambiguity.