What's the source of power of wizard in the Potter universe?

[Noisy Rhysling]

What changes would have to occur for HPverse-style magic to work here? Total rewrite? Minor tweaks? Somewhere in between?

 

[Hoophy]

What changes would have to occur for HPverse-style magic to work here? Total rewrite? Minor tweaks? Somewhere in between?

It's up to you, but if the 'new' forces could not be produced or used abiotically then it would be up to the author to mention them. No difference would be observed on the cosmic scale or any scale without the presence of magical organisms. It would be of no consequence to avoid mentioning the source of power but if you did then people would be picking apart the explanation. If the forces interacted with the universe naturally (in the absence and presence of life) though it would be very interesting.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I meant "here" as in the real world. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Hoophy]

I meant "here" as in the real world. Sorry for the confusion.

No clue! :D

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

No clue! :D

I have none either, but if somebody comes up with a way I've got a fiver that it includes the word "quantum".

 

[Khatti]

I have none either, but if somebody comes up with a way I've got a fiver that it includes the word "quantum".

My personal favorite is the accessing of another universe with slightly different laws of physics, magic is created when our universe interfaces with another universe. My personal opinion is that Superman is in fact an alien from another universe. His superpowers arise from the interactions of the exotic universe that is Superman's body interfacing with the normal universe we live in. How else could he survive in the heart of a star? Star Wars didn't happen in a Galaxy Far Far Away... It happened in a wholly different universe where sound travels through space and light-speed is fast enough to get you from one point in that galaxy to another in just a few hours.

Quantum Mechanics is based on the odds of a particle being in a specific location at a specific time. However, we do have to allow for the possibility that all possible positions of the particle have taken place...somewhere.

 

[Hoophy]

I have none either, but if somebody comes up with a way I've got a fiver that it includes the word "QUANTUM".

QUANTUM Mechanics is based on the...

Nice post by the way Khatti! :D

 

[cube137]

Actually guys.. if Mind and Matter will become a symmetry just like Space and Time.. then all these things in Harry Potter are explainable. Please tell me. What laws of physics or rules forbid the symmetry of Mind and Matter where as Hilbert-like statement would convey:

"The views of mind and matter which I wish to lay before you have sprung from the soil of advanced experimental physics, and therein lies their strength. They are radical. Henceforth matter by itself, and mind by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality."

Come on. Just this once. Be brave to ponder on this. Physicists comfort zone are quantum mechanics and Einstein relativity.. anything beyond they get very uncomfortable to the extend of taking refuge in QM/SR and GR not knowing the unification of QM and GR may need another order different than each.

I'm guessing that those who can't take this.. i'll be just banned so not to ruffle their comfort zone.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

"Physicists comfort zone are quantum mechanics and Einstein relativity.. anything beyond they get very uncomfortable to the extend of taking refuge in QM/SR and GR not knowing the unification of QM and GR may need another order different than each."

If it may need another order different than each would you also say that it may not need such? Or are you absolutely convinced?

 

[cube137]

The thread question is specifically the source of a wizards power. The worldbuilding of the books does contain many rules about the magic (though the worldbuilding itself is weak in favour of entertainment, which is by no means necessarily a bad thing), for instance:

• Ability to use it is mostly inherited in some manner
• It requires specific artefacts (wands, potions etc) to work properly
• Performing spells almost always requires specific words to be clearly said/thought along with appropriate wand movements

But no where do we get an inclination of why these things work. To my knowledge there's no part of the mythology that accounts for what the difference is between wizards and muggles, where the energy comes from to power spells, why spellcasting actions lead to the consequences they do etc. Contrast that to fantasy such as the KingKiller Chronicle or anything by Brandon Sanderson where all parts of magic have explanations for how and why they work within that universes rules.

This isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. Some fiction works well with having the science of magic set out and explained (the discovery is often a good part of the plot). For others it's unnessary and not the focus of the story (like LOTR that had very loose mythology on what magic was, let alone how it worked).If you click the reply button on someone's post a copy of that post is automatically quoted for you. If you hit the quote button the forum software adds the quote to a list of quotes. If you click "insert quotes" in the bottom left of the text box you can review all quotes in that list and remove them as needed,

Ryan_m_b and others..

I'll answer the following:

1. difference is between wizards and muggles,
2. where the energy comes from to power spells,
3. why spellcasting actions lead to the consequences they do etc

I'll share with you what esoteric schools teach about them. This knowledge is not just theoretical but also direct applications that I'm personally privy to. So please be open minded for a while.

1. Consciousness have an energy/field aspect. Wizards simply have more evolved conscious energy. Do you know why there are halos in the heads of saints. This is manifestation of the energy in visible form. Once I tried to awaken my kundalini and I also got halos in head. What is kundalini.. beats me.. it is advanced physics.

2. Kundalini development can lead to very advanced conscious field in the body. In china.. some kids can do telekinesis.. we have observed some form of energy from the kundalini aiming at objects and initiating molecular transformation.

3. Spellcasting is simply programmable conscious energy that can interact with objects in the molecular level.

Well.. About the physics of them. Well.. anyone who figures out how they work get Nobel Prize. And that's the challenge.

What I said came from teachings in the esoteric schools that I'm privy to. But if you can't take it or ruffling your comfort zone.. then just replace the world "esoteric schools" with "harry potter school of magick" :)

 

[Drakkith]

What I said came from teachings in the esoteric schools that I'm privy to.

I'd get your money back, as they don't appear to have taught you anything useful.

What changes would have to occur for HPverse-style magic to work here? Total rewrite? Minor tweaks? Somewhere in between?

The rules of nature would have to have substantial additions and changes. Even basic conservation laws would change and may or may not even hold in all situations.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

The rules of nature would have to have substantial additions and changes. Even basic conservation laws would change and may or may not even hold in all situations.

That's always been the problem with magic, it requires a different set of laws (and thus a different universe) to work. Sadly, that makes real magicians as rare as qualified unicorn riders.

 

[Khatti]

Ability to use it is mostly inherited in some manner

The Sami in Northern Scandinavia are a shamanic culture (well were, now they're just as Lutheran as everyone else in Scandinavia). Their abilities as sorcerers and wizards were known as far away as England during the Dark Ages. In the case of the Sami, sorcerous ability is inherited. This has always implied that there must be some genetic proclivity to sorcery. So Harry Potter has some real-life precedents in this particular matter.

 

[Drakkith]

Sadly, that makes real magicians as rare as qualified unicorn riders.

Buahaha!

 

[Hoophy]

Cube137 please don't get this good thread closed like the others... I am not trying to be mean but I just really like this thread. Now I know I am not one to be talking but I do not think the PF staff will take kindly to this just as they didn't in the "How To Be Funny" thread... I hope you understand it's nothing personal, and I do hope you are successful with whatever you believe in. Thanks. :)

 

[cube137]

So what's the source of power of wizard in the Potter universe?

Inventing fiction is even harder.. lol

Epicycles pills or wands? what is this?

 

[cube137]

The author of Harry Potter has billions of dollars of money already. Has anyone read her book? I still haven't.. is the English she used kinda poetry? I mean is her English extraordinary good.. or just like other writers? I want to write fictions too but don't have any skills to write... why is she so good.. does she answer what is the source of power of wizard in the potter universe? If I have to read one of her books only to see her writing style.. what book volume should that be?

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

The author of Harry Potter has billions of dollars of money already. Has anyone read her book? I still haven't.. is the English she used kinda poetry? I mean is her English extraordinary good.. or just like other writers? I want to write fictions too but don't have any skills to write... why is she so good.. does she answer what is the source of power of wizard in the potter universe? If I have to read one of her books only to see her writing style.. what book volume should that be?

The books are graduated so that the reader matures with the writing style, reading the book that is equivalent to their age as they keep pace with Harry. Of course that doesn't work out any more, kids demand to read as many of the Potter books as they can. Good way to get kids back into actual reading. As for writing style, The Deathly Hallows pulls very few punches, including killing off a few main characters. It's also her longest book. I read Harry Potter's and the Philosopher's Stone in one day.

 

[Hoophy]

I started to read the series when I was 11 and if I had not done this I do not think I would appreciate reading as much as I do now. It is not like poetry cube137, but in my opinion the series is amazing. The source of power is never mentioned.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I started to read the series when I was 11 and if I had not done this I do not think I would appreciate reading as much as I do now. It is not like poetry cube137, but in my opinion the series is amazing. The source of power is never mentioned.

I was in my fifties. My then-wife, Brenda, was studying to be a children's librarian and wanted someone she could argue about the books with.

 

[cube137]

How's her writing style compared to Stephen King? English is not my normal language so I have difficulty with combining euphonious sounding words. I think I want to read one novel now to learn how they write. I have difficulty even combining conversation words. My rhythm is just so harsh sounding.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

How's her writing style compared to Stephen King? English is not my normal language so I have difficulty with combining euphonious sounding words. I think I want to read one novel now to learn how they write. I have difficulty even combining conversation words. My rhythm is just so harsh sounding.

Depends on what King is writing. Rowling writes for young people, so the prose isn't dense. King can be rather convoluted in his writing, or dead simple, as the plot requires.

 

[cube137]

Depends on what King is writing. Rowling writes for young people, so the prose isn't dense. King can be rather convoluted in his writing, or dead simple, as the plot requires.

For people whose natural or first language is English. Can you also write like Rowling? Or is there something special in her writing or is it just normal English? Is what make her bestselling author because of her writing style or her story?

About the source of wizard power in the Potter universe. In this world where ISIS abound, we really not far from savages. Having nukes is enough without having to worry about the source of wizard power. So I'm glad Rowling never mention anything or doesn't know. In the next generation where the world is more stable, perhaps such can be explored. But why don't you people ask Rowling what is the source of the wizard power so she can use her creative to concoct any explanations.. what would that be that in case she were to explain it? What is your guess? maybe element 140? lol

Anyway. You are right Harry Potter stuff is for young people. It is so fantasy and unrealistic that I sometimes get sleepy in the movies watching them.

 

[Hoophy]

Cube137 I think that perhaps J. K. Rowling does not explain the source of the power because she wanted to leave it up to the reader to imagine or maybe she did not want to constantly explain to people the details or have people arguing with her about the source of power. It is just do hard to FULLY (as people would prefer it) explain the source.

 

[cube137]

Cube137 I think that perhaps J. K. Rowling does not explain the source of the power because she wanted to leave it up to the reader to imagine or maybe she did not want to constantly explain to people the details or have people arguing with her about the source of power. It is just do hard to FULLY (as people would prefer it) explain the source.

Maybe Rowling should have a contest where the readers especially young children should try to cook up explanations of the source of the power. It will surely be an exercise in creativity. Also in this world where you are not sure of anything anymore. Not bad to hear different explanations. In year 1850. If you would speak about the Big Bang.. you would be put in mad house. Etc.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

For people whose natural or first language is English. Can you also write like Rowling? Or is there something special in her writing or is it just normal English? Is what make her bestselling author because of her writing style or her story?

About the source of wizard power in the Potter universe. In this world where ISIS abound, we really not far from savages. Having nukes is enough without having to worry about the source of wizard power. So I'm glad Rowling never mention anything or doesn't know. In the next generation where the world is more stable, perhaps such can be explored. But why don't you people ask Rowling what is the source of the wizard power so she can use her creative to concoct any explanations.. what would that be that in case she were to explain it? What is your guess? maybe element 140? lol

Anyway. You are right Harry Potter stuff is for young people. It is so fantasy and unrealistic that I sometimes get sleepy in the movies watching them.

The first reason that the Harry Potter series had been so successful is because that it had been a long series published over a decade, which enabled young readers to experience the excitement and anticipation of release- sort of analogous to the popularity of Star Trek and Star Wars with the older generations. There was also a marketing strategy that helped improve the popularity after the first years of release. I pulled it off the classroom bookshelf and fell in love with the story before it became a frenzy, I think at 10 or 11 years old. Also, she never made the story about herself, she didn't want to be a celebrity. There is a humbleness about J.K. Rowling that allowed children to trust and love her. Children know when adults want to make them happy and do respond to that. It could be considered a sentimental gift, anyone so invested in making children happy can only send the message that an adult believed in them. It's very important to remember too, that literature has almost solely been for adults throughout history. There is a social meaning in historical context with the series and the last century of child literature. Children were not treated decently (and still aren't in many parts of the world) up until this last century. Things like that can be an indication of social change, or also be a part of activism involved in bringing forward more child rights movements in regions of the world that they are considered an object for use and possession.

The second reason is that there is certainly something special in her imagination and the works required the sort of creativity that only a very gifted person could deliver. The quality of her writing in the first book could probably be considered superior against the uneducated population, but her writing skills improved so much throughout the years of writing the series that near the end she could be considered superior against all other writers. The evolution of her writing quality can easily be seen. Her imagination and creativity remained just as special as before; however, her writing ability had only been a tool she used to express those qualities. She wanted to tell a story that she was visualizing throughout the series. She was able to create a world that seemed genuine with rich imagery and that children could relate with. She knew what children needed and would love because she didn't stop wondering about the world herself. The story is overall fun, quirky, humorous, emotional, and filling for a child to read. All of the common story elements and universal themes are present, but she took it further and added many more relational elements that enhanced the emotional quality in a way that nothing has ever been done before in child literature.

My 4-year old and I watched The Prisoner of Azkaban a week or so ago. Bonding moment! I was delighted that she had been interested. I do agree that it is mainly for young people. But, I will probably pull out the series every few years anyway... There hasn't been much fiction that I can tolerate since then.

 

[cube137]

In the 7 volumes of the Harry Potter books. Aren't there any instances of the wizards being subjected to initiations where their bodies were exposed to some form of energy? Rowling constant scene of energies coming from and going to and from other objects is what makes the series so visually desirable and interesting because it appeals to children's eyes (in screen or imagination).

In almost all secret societies. Becoming a wizard or initiate involved subjecting their bodies to some kind of energy.. there is this Rod of Initiation which is made to contact with the neophyte recharging the body and they completing the initiation (or at least one of series of). This will them give them some kind of powers.

Now I don't trust any sources anymore. If all the details mentioned in the secret societies were just taken from some myths and lied to the gullible members. Maybe Rowling has same access to such myths and therefore the bodies being subjected to some forces which made them wizards or initiates is hidden somewhere in the 7 volumes? I haven't read any of the books.. so if you come across them, do share it.. because I want to tract their common source or the myths where they came from.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

If you're going to read the books start with philosophers stone, jumping in part way will not only be confusing but undercut some of the character and relationship development.

As for why it's so popular it's hard to say. Could be that it's quaintly British, or that the themes are approximate for all ages, or it might just be that people love the idea of magic.

Whichever one the books certainly don't bother explaining how magic works. It just does, and seemingly can do anything if you know how.

 

[cube137]

We have X-men genres for the adult audience that is based more on technology that kids don't understand and I guess that is why kids love Harry Potter more. Notice the Potter wizards abilities are simply one aspect of X-men powers especially control of the elementals like Storm controlling the weather. Only in the Potter universe, there is an additional force that they can control that can interact with matter at the molecular, subatomic and quarks levels. It's very generic power only that is unlike in the Marvel Universe.

Do kids really understand all of Harry Potter. For X-men, surely kids can't understand what the latest movie X-men Apocalypse is all about for example when the super villain Apocalypse said "I’ve been called many things over many lifetimes: Ra, Krishna, Yahweh. I was there to spark and fan the flame of man’s awakening, to spin the wheel of civilization.” Many 6 years old sure won't understand what the sentence even says.

 

[cube137]

Pondering on this.

In the Potter universe, a man can be turned into a bird or cat.. this has no correlate even in X-men and there is none even in the esoteric fields. Therefore there is only one possible explanation how this occurred in the Potter universe. The wizard has accessed to the program of reality and they can change it as they see fit while interacting in a Matrix like interactive universe. The source of the wizard power is simply backdoor to the program of Matrix like reality.

This is what I concluded as far as I am concerned. Feel free to theorize your own that can explain how a big man can turn into a small bird.. lol

I don't have time to read any of the 7 volumes. If I have time. I'll just read Hawking's or Michio latest book. But Rowling net worth of 1 Billion dollars is just amazing isn't it. Many physicists dream of winning Nobel Prizes worth 1.3 million. Rowling 1000 million/1.3 is worth about 769 Nobel Prizes.. so I think she beats even Einstein in money cleverness. I wonder if there is additional movie after the 7 parts...

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

In the 7 volumes of the Harry Potter books. Aren't there any instances of the wizards being subjected to initiations where their bodies were exposed to some form of energy? Rowling constant scene of energies coming from and going to and from other objects is what makes the series so visually desirable and interesting because it appeals to children's eyes (in screen or imagination).

Do you mean so they can become wizards? No, that seems to be their nature at birth. They gain skills as they mature but that's more a matter of controlling the power rather than acquiring it. I suspect that one of the "tip offs" that a child in the muggle world is a wizard is that magic is being done in unexpected places. When they first meet Hagrid asks Harry if he's ever done anything odd or special, like making a plate of glass disappear and then reappear.

 

[cube137]

Do you mean so they can become wizards? No, that seems to be their nature at birth. They gain skills as they mature but that's more a matter of controlling the power rather than acquiring it. I suspect that one of the "tip offs" that a child in the muggle world is a wizard is that magic is being done in unexpected places. When they first meet Hagrid asks Harry if he's ever done anything odd or special, like making a plate of glass disappear and then reappear.

One of the things I don't believe in and don't understand is how bloodlines is being related to powers (But someone has a theory worth hearing).
Well.. we can't blame the kids for being interested.. at least they knew it was fiction. But for adults, many couldn't even differentiate between fact and fiction. For example. David Icke believed in such special bloodlines and he duped so many adults. It looked like some adults are like children :) David mentioned bloodlines was important because "wizards" have genetics that can make them be possessed easier by other entities. So in Potter universe, the wizards source of power could be possession by off world entities (In Potter stories, many entities abound). Anyway this quote from David is just for context (I have zero background in it). David said: "Once activated, the DNA opens the body to possession by these reptilians and other beings, and this is what is happening, for example, to Freemasons in the rituals that most of them deliver parrot fashion while having no idea of their vibrational significance. This is why the Illuminati are so obsessed with knowing a person's bloodline. They know which have the potential for this activation and possession and which do not. The Mormon Church genealogical data base and now the DNA data banks are designed to identify those with the bloodline. These are the people who are given jobs and roles that serve the Illuminati agenda, while most of them have no idea what is really going on and what they are being used for. Their DNA is then activated and they go through a change of character (a phrase I have heard so many times in relation to such people once they advance in the system) and a very different consciousness takes over their mental and emotional processes." (Moderators, again I mentioned this just to share the idea the source of power of the wizards in the Potter Universe could be possessions by other entities.. good or bad.. if you can't take this, just delete this message and not lock the thread as some feared would happen if I kept posting, and I won't post again here as I really don't have much interest in it and I'm not the OP of this thread, thank you).

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

"So in Potter universe, the wizards source of power could be possession by off world entities "

Not even the slightest clue of this in the books.

 

[cube137]

"So in Potter universe, the wizards source of power could be possession by off world entities "

Not even the slightest clue of this in the books.

Just out of curiousity. I entered the words "David Icke" and "Harry Potter" at google to see if there are any discussions and dozens of hits came up. The following is a sample of the discussions (just google it as non-pear reviewed links are banned in this thread so couldn't share the link):

"supertzar: To me, it seems clear that Harry represents the hybrid Illuminati. Voldemort is the purebred reptilians. Hybrids positioning themselves as the heroes of mankind, fighting the evil reptilians.
mariag: I totaly agree , i have seen the latest of the HP films with me daughter and I am fully convinced , boy its so obvious really , with the owls , and the blond haired blue eyed demons and the talk about half blood and full blood and all that , so yes i do think this is "___"
By the way , this whole HP business is really hypnotizing not only our kids , but a lot of grown ups are really into this , "satanism" bloodline movie ... Horryfing it is"

More thoughts in the link.

Sorry I just can't resist. I'll stop now. I know this is getting beyond the topic of this thread I'm sorry so I'll leave at it and let others carry on the discussions of the source of the wizards powers in the potter universe (counterpart of the marvel universe? hmm..).

 

[Hoophy]

Sorry I just can't resist. I'll stop now. I know this is getting beyond the topic of this thread I'm sorry so I'll leave at it and let others carry on the discussions of the source of the wizards powers in the potter universe (counterpart of the marvel universe? hmm..).

Thanks for your consideration of this thread's longevity, perhaps you could start a new thread discussing possible and fictional metaphors between the real world and works of fiction. Be it various different fictional pieces being discussed in the same thread or Harry Potter specifically. Just keep in mind that pointing the finger at religion (such as your earlier mention of Mormons) might upset some PF members. And perhaps treat your 'Illuminati' conspiracies as fiction on the PF lest your thread be closed. Good luck! :)

 

[EnumaElish]

Wizards/witches have an intuitive grasp and partial control of the great simulation algorithm that we all live in. It is sort of like the Matrix movies. At a muggle level, an example would be how Kirk as a cadet in the Academy hijacks (although his superior's preferred word is "cheat") Spock's simulation algorithm and "wins" the game in Star Trek (2009). [None of this is in the books.]

As well: practice³.